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  1. #16
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    No this one will happen, as others have said they already did a last minute cancel, but the question I am wondering will there be an attack cause what 4/5 times a superhero gets married someone has to attack the wedding reception.
    Yeah, after both X-Men and Batman had fakeouts, both of which drew criticism, Marvel won't be making the same mistake again, they'll learn from their own and DC's mistakes. This one's the real McCoy.
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  2. #17
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    I expect it to happen, and stick long term. It’s an entirely credible development for two characters concerned.

    And hope it heralds a change in Ben’s fortunes, and some real character development for first time for ages.

    Feed up with him yelling “It’s clobbering time”, fighting pluckily for 5 mins, then losing. The guy with two degrees and a pilot qualification should be smarter than that.

    Way beyond time that he got some training from his friend Karnak, so next time he fights the Hulk he wins by using unarmed combat technique to get a clear win. I long to see him say as he walks away from a beaten Hulk something like “You’ll have to fight smarter than that to beat me”.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I expect it to happen, and stick long term. It’s an entirely credible development for two characters concerned.

    And hope it heralds a change in Ben’s fortunes, and some real character development for first time for ages.

    Feed up with him yelling “It’s clobbering time”, fighting pluckily for 5 mins, then losing. The guy with two degrees and a pilot qualification should be smarter than that.

    Way beyond time that he got some training from his friend Karnak, so next time he fights the Hulk he wins by using unarmed combat technique to get a clear win. I long to see him say as he walks away from a beaten Hulk something like “You’ll have to fight smarter than that to beat me”.
    Was Hulk been a bit smarter as he fought against Ben in the past given their previous fight ?

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Was Hulk been a bit smarter as he fought against Ben in the past given their previous fight ?
    Jeez knows. The last Hulk comics I read was the long Peter David run...that featured a whole range of Hulks, from ones that were incredibly smart to a wee bit thick, with a fair number in between.


    I suppose we’d expect even the Hulks that are a wee bit thick would learn something from previous fights and fight a bit smarter next time...but I think Ben, other things being equal, ought to be able to raise his game more.

    Ben knows he can’t out-muscle the Hulk, but if he gives real thought to best way to fight, he can win. Indeed really ought to win if he takes it seriously. Apart from training with Karnak, he could ask Future Foundation to come up with winning fight strategies, use some of Reed’s computers to run fight simulations, etc.

    Put it this way..if I was in Ben’s shoes..I’d be looking for ways to improve performance. In many ways, think Marvel has written Ben as a lovable loser for too long. But...maybe..that’s his pigeon hole.
    Last edited by JackDaw; 09-16-2018 at 11:24 AM.

  5. #20
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Current Hulk is as intelligent as Banner. First thing he'd do is look for a weak point. Remember, when Hulk was being controlled in No Surrender, he went straight for Vision's head. The synthezoid was terminally damaged. He's also been able to depower both Red Hulk and Sasquatch.
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  6. #21
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I kind of hope there is at least one joke about how dumb it was to think Alicia would ever marry Johnny, just to troll John Byrne.

    No, I don't think they will do that. Brevoort already admitted he made a mistake allowing a comic to troll John Byrne. But it is so weird to me even now that Byrne would do that story (though I should add, to be fair to him, he wasn't the one who married them). Between that and trying to pair up the Scarlet Witch with Wonder Man, it seems like Byrne only wanted beautiful women to be with conventionally attractive men. Well, at least it's a complete 180 from the usual nerd fantasy.
    I doubt it bothered Byrne anway. When asked about it back in 2005, he just went along with it

    Undoing the Johnny/Alicia relationship was, of course, the prerogative of any writer(s) who followed me on FF. My only complaint: I wish the writer who did it had not chosen such a clumsy and "comic-booky" (in the worst sense of the term) way of doing it.
    Besides, Byrne left the title and the wedding issues were written by Roger Stern. He probably just followed what seemed to be the direction things were going. Byrne's further comments on the wedding:

    Worth noting, I suppose, that by the time I left the FF I had reached a rythm with the characters that I was literally making it up as I went along. Letting the characters "tell" me where the stories were going to go, with very little actually plotting out beyond the issue I was working on. General ideas of where I needed to end up, but nothing specific.
    Because of this, I did not know when I left if I would actually have had Johnny and Alicia get married. I suspect not, but I don't know for sure. The characters themselves had not yet "told" me the way it was supposed to go!
    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 09-16-2018 at 05:38 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Jeez knows. The last Hulk comics I read was the long Peter David run...that featured a whole range of Hulks, from ones that were incredibly smart to a wee bit thick, with a fair number in between.


    I suppose we’d expect even the Hulks that are a wee bit thick would learn something from previous fights and fight a bit smarter next time...but I think Ben, other things being equal, ought to be able to raise his game more.

    Ben knows he can’t out-muscle the Hulk, but if he gives real thought to best way to fight, he can win. Indeed really ought to win if he takes it seriously. Apart from training with Karnak, he could ask Future Foundation to come up with winning fight strategies, use some of Reed’s computers to run fight simulations, etc.

    Put it this way..if I was in Ben’s shoes..I’d be looking for ways to improve performance. In many ways, think Marvel has written Ben as a lovable loser for too long. But...maybe..that’s his pigeon hole.
    Look at World War Hulk for a QUICK Thing vs Hulk match as Hulk ended that fight in a mere 2 panels.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Look at World War Hulk for a QUICK Thing vs Hulk match as Hulk ended that fight in a mere 2 panels.
    I can vaguely remember World War Hulk getting predominantly good reviews when it came out, and coming across an omnibus collection in the library.

    Thankfully some sixth sense told me not to read it, I can see I would have been mightily vexed.

    The sixth sense also helped when I baled out of Bendis Avengers run at an early stage, missing the even more vexatious scenes of Ben acting as look-out while Luke Cage did the heavy fighting.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Look at World War Hulk for a QUICK Thing vs Hulk match as Hulk ended that fight in a mere 2 panels.
    The most recent example is Secret Empire where he is downed in two hits.

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  10. #25
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Ah the wedding of torch and Alicia. Puppet master was angry over it he even tried to get ben to go back to dating her because he would rather see her be with the thing then the childish torch. (when that didn't work he just took control of ben with his puppets!) Funny thing is the marriage had the torch grow up and made him a stronger hero. He was no longer as childish and came out as a better hero. He had (Gasp!) character development! Can't have that at marvel! They wanted 5 year old childish torch back! So she was a skrull after years in the title. Marvel at it's worst. Funny thing is people ended up liking the skrull due to how she acted all these years to the point marvel had to bring her back after they killed her as fans in the letter section kept asking for her to return. They then shipped her off to limbo so torch could date other woman!
    Puppet Master has possibly the greatest beef against a hero team of any villain. If the team is seen as passing his daughter around, that would piss off a LOT of people. I could see Phil asking Reed angrily, "what, is it YOUR turn now?" I can certainly feel for him here.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    No one is passing anyone around. That denies that people have agency.

    IIRC, the Puppet Master was actually grateful because the Fantastic Four rescued Alicia from the Skrulls.
    Last edited by Mike_Murdock; 09-16-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Yup. He even went to the thing for help after finding out his daughters been replaced by a skrull.

    Edit-plus back in the torch wedding he not only chooses not to take over the thing and stop the wedding he takes over dragon man and uses him to stop other bad guys who were going to attack the wedding. He felt his daughters happiness was better then his hatred!
    Last edited by Gaastra; 09-16-2018 at 05:01 PM.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    I'll be rooting for those crazy kids

  14. #29
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    I just think is cool that there is no way to be sure.
    But i guess if the stories were predictable i would not be reading them.
    I can see the mariage sticking in the stories and i would not be surprised if the marriage did not happen.
    Anyways i know i will be Reading the Fantastic Four stories to know if the marriage will stick or not.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    No this one will happen, as others have said they already did a last minute cancel, but the question I am wondering will there be an attack cause what 4/5 times a superhero gets married someone has to attack the wedding reception.
    Yeah it’ll be interesting to see who takes the shot. I mean would doom bother? For reed sure but I don’t think he can be arsed with the thing. Puppet master will. Mole man probably

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