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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    While I'm there.



    It sure does matter if Cap has to actually land said one hit.

    Reflex performances to suggest he's pulling that off on the guy who does no look arrow catches on an arrow shot from behind him by the likes of Green Arrow?
    Well, Loki did a no-look arrow-catch from Hawkeye, in the middle of a very loud and crowded battle, on an air speeder, and Cap had no problem whatsoever tagging Loki several times.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    He noted Bats doing this to Panther after taking out the other two, presuming he does.
    Ah, I did indeed miss that. Thanks.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Well, Loki did a no-look arrow-catch from Hawkeye, and Cap had no problem whatsoever tagging Loki.
    "Captain America has no comparable reaction feats to Batman, the best I can do is note someone else's reaction time and say that Cap fought him"

    Do you have anything that is not "Cap hit a guy who has reaction time feats he himself has never come close to"?

    Because if we're going by that standard, the "well he fought a guy who did X", Batman has hypersonic reaction time at minimum.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Well, Loki did a no-look arrow-catch from Hawkeye, in the middle of a very loud and crowded battle, on an air speeder, and Cap had no problem whatsoever tagging Loki several times.
    That's not really how speed arguments work. Otherwise Aquaman is a bullet timer cause he fought Steppenwolf who fought wonder woman. ABC logic is ehhh

    Edit: blitzed by pen!
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  5. #20

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    My thoughts: Batman has the tools to get through this, but it's statistically unlikely.

    He can probably pressure point and gouge his way to victory on the WW2 vets, and he can probably out grapple Panther. But all at once?

    Dude has to cross 100 feet and do all that while avoiding various projectiles with no cover. He can likely accomplish this, but if Bucky and Steve just turn and smash Panther at the bell he gets charged up by the time Bruce had made any real gains. The AoE should probably tip this imo.
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  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    All three is a bit much when they can charge up the suit with punches from the robot arm and shield strikes to make sure it gets a pretty good charge for kablooey purposes, yes.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Bats can probably beat all three of them one on one but he goes down hard versus all three with or without a utility belt.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Honestly, while I think that MCU Cap's feats that put his strength substantially beyond Comic Batman's (tearing up Iron Man armor on a day that it ignores getting multiple cars dropped on it, keeping pace with Spider-Man on a day he casually overpowered Bucky's metal arm that had earlier overpowered Cap, and even momentarily delaying Thanos from closing his hand shortly after Thanos one-shot Black Panther through his Vibranium jimjams and shortly before he just crunched Vision's Vibranium skull with one hand, etc...) are largely massive doses of Spider-Man vs. Firelord designed to keep him relevant in fights that involve several people who should swat him in passing (something that Comic Bats would approve of, considering that basically the only reasonhe is every alive after most Justice League missions), I don't see how Comic Batman's superior skill at grappling will do anything against Black Panther's Vibranium suit except let him awkwardly hang onto him like a koala for as long as it takes for the pressure he is exerting on his opponent in a futile attempt to keep him unmoving combines with the force of T'Challa kicking the floor over and over and he ends up eating an AOE attack, then rinse and repeat until you have Paté of Bat.

    At least not without some sonics, gas, or maybe a freeze gun or EMP. Also, it should be noted that MCU Loki is nowhere near as skilled in melee as Batman, and that his plan largely required being captured at that point, so it's not exactly a clean showing. Comic Bruce is definitely a way more impressive aim dodger than MCU Steve.
    Last edited by The Drunkard Kid; 09-16-2018 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Eh, dude killed a jeep with a motorcycle as a melee weapon and otherwise was restraining a helicopter with the power of lov- uhh, his strength. He's stronger than comic Batman fine.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-16-2018 at 09:11 PM.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Eh, dude killed a jeep with a motorcycle as a melee weapon and otherwise was restraining a helicopter with the power of lov- uhh, his strength. He's stronger than comic Batman fine.
    The Jeep feat involved him riding the motorcycle towards an incoming Jeep, then flipping over the handlebars and judo flipping the motorcycle over him to continue going at approximately the same speed it was already going at and doing about as much damage as would be expected from a head on collision at that angle. The feat was more about having the coordination to do the move and strength to lift a motorcycle, and doesn't seem out of the question for a guy that Kung Fus trees in half with individual strikes (which is also pretty silly, considering that the Jeep and motorcycle would have been unlikely to do more than superficial damage to those trees if they had smashed into them).

    The helicopter feat is more impressive, since he's actively resisting a force, but it was pointed out to me before that the fact that the helicopter was relatively small and still in the process of lifting off, it wouldn't have been particularly stable at that point and stood a good chance of crashing in a similar fashion if Cap had just tried to dangle off of it rather than play tug of war with it.

    Still, even if he's stronger, I don't think MCU Cap's non-SMvFL feats are sufficient tosay that he would be able to outright ignore regular punches from a Comic Book Peak Human.

  11. #26

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    He's also slid a humvee a dozen feet across the ground into a dude with a kick and can tear Ultron Bots to pieces who they themselves can crawl through concrete

    For durability, he took two direct blasts from Ultron that in other situations managed to tear up enormous chunks of street. These two blasts also sent him flying into oncoming traffic, smashing the front of the cars he hit.

    He was also struck dead center mass by a Chitauri weapon. The same one that was blowing up cars and breaking stone walls. He doubled over in agony but got up to speed in less than 30 seconds.
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  12. #27

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    Motorcycle toss is at 1:50
    https://youtu.be/UG7Q0X4DuzM

    He has the thing airborne before his feet even touch the ground. You can clearly see it accelerating. It caves in the front of the jeep with enough force to flip the jeep head over heels. That is waaay beyond what a normal crash would accomplish.
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  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    The Jeep feat involved him riding the motorcycle towards an incoming Jeep, then flipping over the handlebars and judo flipping the motorcycle over him to continue going at approximately the same speed it was already going at and doing about as much damage as would be expected from a head on collision at that angle. The feat was more about having the coordination to do the move and strength to lift a motorcycle, and doesn't seem out of the question for a guy that Kung Fus trees in half with individual strikes (which is also pretty silly, considering that the Jeep and motorcycle would have been unlikely to do more than superficial damage to those trees if they had smashed into them).

    The helicopter feat is more impressive, since he's actively resisting a force, but it was pointed out to me before that the fact that the helicopter was relatively small and still in the process of lifting off, it wouldn't have been particularly stable at that point and stood a good chance of crashing in a similar fashion if Cap had just tried to dangle off of it rather than play tug of war with it.

    Still, even if he's stronger, I don't think MCU Cap's non-SMvFL feats are sufficient tosay that he would be able to outright ignore regular punches from a Comic Book Peak Human.
    I know you've had this thing with MCU Cap ever since the Spiderman stuff but I just rewatched the Ultron scene now. What you are saying is not what happened as far as how you try to ignore this thing. He throws the motorcycle such that it goes end over end and crashes with an impact welllll beyond what would otherwise be possible from such a thing. If he was getting by on using its own momentum, that would not be a thing that would have happened. More to the point, he is throwing it. Even if your take was accurate it means he is strong enough to, while flippping off a motorcycle and holding it by its handlebars, lift it over his head, and throw it away from him, all while it keeps going at the same speed/force you feel is the determinant of how much damage it does. So at minimum he's strong enough to, say, lift a motorcycle over his head and throw it, despite its "jeep shattering momentum" (again, going by your "the motorcycle did all the work") and his comparative lack of leverage given his feet not even touching the ground. You're also really, really reaching to undersell the helicopter thing. He held back a helicopter and your big qualifier is "it was relatively small". Said really directly: that is strength wise significantly beyond Batman all the same.


    The motorcycle thing:

    https://youtu.be/UG7Q0X4DuzM?t=109

    Still, even if he's stronger, I don't think MCU Cap's non-SMvFL feats are sufficient tosay that he would be able to outright ignore regular punches from a Comic Book Peak Human.

    Why would they mean that anyway? Strength is not durability.

    Considering I'm saying Batman beats him just fine even with no gear, it's not like I'm saying this from the perspective of, say a guy who is really into a particular character and not liking how some stuff resolved with them.


    Cap is well slower than Batman. He has gouge-able eyes. He has a neck that can be kicked with the force that can knock down a tree. One on one vs Bats, his strength will not be a thing he can bring to bear to help him.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-16-2018 at 11:01 PM.

  14. #29

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    Heh. Now I blitzed Pen.
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  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Don't push it, potential 4 am Denny's ;p

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