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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Honestly, while I think that MCU Cap's feats that put his strength substantially beyond Comic Batman's (tearing up Iron Man armor on a day that it ignores getting multiple cars dropped on it, keeping pace with Spider-Man on a day he casually overpowered Bucky's metal arm that had earlier overpowered Cap, and even momentarily delaying Thanos from closing his hand shortly after Thanos one-shot Black Panther through his Vibranium jimjams and shortly before he just crunched Vision's Vibranium skull with one hand, etc...) are largely massive doses of Spider-Man vs. Firelord...
    When you have massive doses of SM v FL, it stops being SM v FL and becomes the dude's canon power level.

  2. #32
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    Reflex performances to suggest he's pulling that off on the guy who does no look arrow catches on an arrow shot from behind him by the likes of Green Arrow?
    (Or on another occasion with Ollie directly shooting at his back, turning around, looking to the shot, and proceeding to split it in mid air with a batarang, for instance)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    "Captain America has no comparable reaction feats to Batman, the best I can do is note someone else's reaction time and say that Cap fought him"

    Do you have anything that is not "Cap hit a guy who has reaction time feats he himself has never come close to"?

    Because if we're going by that standard, the "well he fought a guy who did X", Batman has hypersonic reaction time at minimum.
    Dude, you literally asked me if he can hit a guy who blind-arrow-catches a narrow from an expert archer and I give you an example of him hitting with a move that would split Batman in half, on a guy who blind-arrow-catches a narrow from an expert archer. What gives?

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Dude, you literally asked me if he can hit a guy who blind-arrow-catches a narrow from an expert archer and I give you an example of him hitting with a move that would split Batman in half, on a guy who blind-arrow-catches a narrow from an expert archer. What gives?
    Batman hits people who catch bullets, with no problem whatsoever. By your logic, how fast does that make Batman?

    Remember before you answer that you said this:

    Well, Loki did a no-look arrow-catch from Hawkeye, in the middle of a very loud and crowded battle, on an air speeder, and Cap had no problem whatsoever tagging Loki several times.
    In fact, Batman has hit all kinds of outright superspeedsters, going by the logic of your arguments, how fast is Batman?


    Remember, I'm looking for consistency with your statements.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-17-2018 at 12:58 AM.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    I asked for reaction feats for Captain America, and provided a couple from Batman for comparison. The only thing you could come up with is "Cap hit a guy who himself has a comparable reaction time performance"

    For you to be any kind of consistent with yourself, that now means you think Batman is what, hypersonic speed at least? He hits all kinds of guys with reaction showings he himself has otherwise nothing comparable to.

    That's what's up.

    (No, I don't think that, but then again I'm not the one saying "Cap hit Loki and Loki caught an arrow, therefore Cap has performed equivalently to them feats").

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    When you have massive doses of SM v FL, it stops being SM v FL and becomes the dude's canon power level.
    Deathstroke is suddenly FTL eh?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Batman hits people who catch bullets, with no problem whatsoever. By your logic, how fast does that make Batman?
    Better question: is being fast enough to catch bullets all that good a defense against somebody trying to punch you in the face?
    Huge amounts of evidence in comics suggest not even slightly.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Deathstroke is suddenly FTL eh?
    I don't know. Does Deathstroke go faster than light very often across many stories by multiple writers?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    I asked for reaction feats for Captain America...
    You literally asked for feats suggesting he can hit somebody that fast, and I gave you a feat of him hitting somebody that fast.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Better question: is being fast enough to catch bullets all that good a defense against somebody trying to punch you in the face?
    Huge amounts of evidence in comics suggest not even slightly.
    Why are you trying to talk about how any of these people could "end Batman in one move" then talking about "comics would make that not matter" with regards reflexes. In comics, Batman can somehow emerge unscathed from massive explosions. In comics, Batman can somehow be alive after a beating from a Superman who thinks he's fighting one of his more potent villains.

    What standard would you like to argue with? The one the board you're posting on uses, where we weigh characters for their capabilities and don't consider that they'll conveniently forget them for the sake of a fight, or "in comics", where nothing remotely of what you have said would matter, because if the writer has wished it so, Batman can get into fights with metahumans well beyond the ones we're talking about here and yet hold his own somehow.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    You literally asked for feats suggesting he can hit somebody that fast, and I gave you a feat of him hitting somebody that fast.
    No, I asked for reflex performances and you gave me "Cap hit a guy who he's done nothing like that guy's reflex performances".

    I then said "so in order for you not to have complete double standards, doesn't that mean Batman is as fast or faster than all the speedy people he's hit?"

    You then defaulted to "well in comics speed wouldn't matter for not getting hit" instead of answering my question.

    At which point you run into the problem that in comics, nothing you have been talking about for how powerful someone is would matter either.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I don't know. Does Deathstroke go faster than light very often across many stories by multiple writers?
    Not even remotely close, but he sure hits people who can a whole bunch. And your logic is already what it is.

    Deathstroke, FTL?

    edit: in fact, forget Deathstroke, the Flash's non speedster rogues gallery who hit him just all the time, and who otherwise have no enhanced speed showings whatsoever, they're all FTL too, presumably?
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-17-2018 at 01:38 AM.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    I know we've reached the place of "the only feats that count are Cap's strength feats, reflex feats don't matter for anything", but here's another reflex performance for Batman.

    In the span of all of an eyeblink, Batman switches out a pair of teacups in front of him, sitting across from the guy who has poisoned them, such that there is no perceptible sound for his doing so nor sign of motion before or after said eyeblink.

    Comparable reaction performance from Captain America?
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-17-2018 at 01:47 AM.

  13. #43
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Is kicking a tree down that far below MCU cap? It seems a peer strength feat with what MCU cap regularly pulls out.

    Imo Bruce would lose to BP alone in this match, but I'm iffy on the strength comparisons.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Is kicking a tree down that far below MCU cap? It seems a peer strength feat with what MCU cap regularly pulls out.

    Imo Bruce would lose to BP alone in this match, but I'm iffy on the strength comparisons.
    Yeah, it's fairly below MCU Cap considering the helicopter and motorcycle stuff. It's a tree, Cap killed a jeep with a bike as a thrown object (not even a melee weapon, as I'd otherwise recalled)
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-17-2018 at 01:30 AM.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can guess where this thread is going to go, so, PIS, the thing of "people don't forget their abilities for the sake of plot" as far as board standards. The same standard that means Cap could remember that he's strong enough to do things like said helicopter or motorcycle stuff as far as how much damage he could do to someone instead of the times where he performs.. not at that capacity, and thus hit people with that force, is the exact same standard of that someone who is demonstrably faster than the other person will remember that they could avoid the other person's blows via said being demonstrably faster, while also thereby landing their own.

    Or: if Cap can recall how much stronger he is for this fight, then Batman can recall that his reflex time, as far as either feats or as far as not having glaring double standards, is considerably beyond Cap in exchange as far as Cap either hitting him, or indeed, not getting hit by him. Anything else is basically having one standard for one character and what you might call, let's say, a second standard for a different character.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-17-2018 at 02:17 AM.

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