Doctor Fate vs. the Phantom Stranger

[daBronzeBomma]

The only two heroes who can each actually make the Spectre break a sweat in a DCU fight now go at each other!

Round 1: original versions

Round 2: Pre-COIE versions

Round 3: Post-COIE / Pre-flashpoint versions

Round 4: New52 / Rebirth / most recent (if no difference btw New52 and Rebirth) versions

Round 5: Stacked composite versions

Bonus Round: most powerful versions of Doctor Fate AND the Phantom Stranger double-team against the Spectre ... how long do they last?

Standard Rumbles settings.

[The Arbiter]

Phantom Stranger should handedly win Pre and Post Crisis fights. Not sure about the other ones, but the dude is typically hyped up beyond Fate.

DoV Spectre wrecked Fate/Nabu pretty easily. When dealing with the Stranger? Couldn't finish him off. Stranger even said that the divine forces above wouldn't allow him to die or some such. So Spectre had to "cheat" and turn the guy into a mouse.

If it's Jim Corrigan Spectre, he should beat both of them.

[daBronzeBomma]

Really?

Doesn't Pre-COIE Dr. Fate have some of the most bonkers on- panel feats (at least on par with Pre-COIE Supes) this side of True Cosmics?

What's the best feat(s) for Phantom Stranger, any version?

[The Arbiter]

Really?

Doesn't Pre-COIE Dr. Fate have some of the most bonkers on- panel feats (at least on par with Pre-COIE Supes) this side of True Cosmics?

What's the best feat(s) for Phantom Stranger, any version?

Yeah, pre crisis Kent Nelson Fate is crazy powerful.

Problem with Stranger is that most of his power is implied. But even so, he has stuff like wrestling demonic entities powerful enough to wrap themselves around the sun, and has explored the Big Bang while it's exploding.

[The Chou Lives]

The only Phantom Stranger who loses is Nu 52. Weak sauce who gave him the origin story of being Judas ( who betrayed Jesus) and was trying to redeem himself as god gave him the chance.


But yeah PS is above Fate. Hell in Tim Hunters first book PS gave Tim a history lesson by casually time traveling him to Big Bang, pre history, the future and all in panels, casually.

You do not **** with the Stranger.

[Pendaran]

A lot of the Nu 52 disappointed me, but nothing quite so much as giving the Phantom Stranger a definite, coherent origin. The whole idea is you're never supposed to be sure! He's a Phantom Stranger! It's right in the name! Blaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

[TerryAce]

A lot of the Nu 52 disappointed me, but nothing quite so much as giving the Phantom Stranger a definite, coherent origin. The whole idea is you're never supposed to be sure! He's a Phantom Stranger! It's right in the name! Blaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Giving Phantom Stranger an origin misses his whole point.

Also, I feel PS has a higher level of power, mostly implied but pretty high in scale.

[Beadle]

A lot of the Nu 52 disappointed me, but nothing quite so much as giving the Phantom Stranger a definite, coherent origin. The whole idea is you're never supposed to be sure! He's a Phantom Stranger! It's right in the name! Blaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

I completely agree with what you’re saying, but this might be the first time DC were ever criticised for giving someone a coherent back-story. Somewhere Donna Troy and Hawkman are weeping softly.

[Pendaran]

I completely agree with what you’re saying, but this might be the first time DC were ever criticised for giving someone a coherent back-story. Somewhere Donna Troy and Hawkman are weeping softly.

I will tell you right now that if either of them changed their superhero names to "Incomprehensible Trashfire Backstory-man" (or woman), I would suddenly be totally fine with their train wrecks of a narrative as being on brand ;p

[daBronzeBomma]

Wait, so since the Spectre can't kill the Phantom Stranger due to the Spectre's Boss (The Voice/ Presence)'s protection, does that mean that the Phantom Stranger is basically unkillable, period?

Has the Phantom Stranger ever been killed (as the Phantom Stranger, and not whatever he may have been prior to), or is that protection only against the Spectre?

Was that protection only for that one fight?

Questions, questions, questions ...

[Beadle]

I will tell you right now that if either of them changed their superhero names to "Incomprehensible Trashfire Backstory-man" (or woman), I would suddenly be totally fine with their train wrecks of a narrative as being on brand ;p

If you changed that to ”Incomprehensible Trashfire Backstory Boy / Lad" (or Girl / Lass), they’d sound like perfect candidates for LoSH membership.

Ludicrously convoluted continuity? Check.
Naming-by-numbers totally-self-explanatory superhero name? Check.

It’s a perfect match.

[The Chou Lives]

Wait, so since the Spectre can't kill the Phantom Stranger due to the Spectre's Boss (The Voice/ Presence)'s protection, does that mean that the Phantom Stranger is basically unkillable, period?

Has the Phantom Stranger ever been killed (as the Phantom Stranger, and not whatever he may have been prior to), or is that protection only against the Spectre?

Was that protection only for that one fight?

Questions, questions, questions ...

Well in NU PS “died” when JL, JLA And JLD all fought because his mirror thingy shattered. It was stupid. Because prior to NU PS is basically a walking mysterious plot device that you did not **** with.

[The Arbiter]

Wait, so since the Spectre can't kill the Phantom Stranger due to the Spectre's Boss (The Voice/ Presence)'s protection, does that mean that the Phantom Stranger is basically unkillable, period?

Has the Phantom Stranger ever been killed (as the Phantom Stranger, and not whatever he may have been prior to), or is that protection only against the Spectre?

Was that protection only for that one fight?

Questions, questions, questions ...

It's fairly well implied that at best you can 10 count him but not really "kill" him.

His boss wants him to be alive, period. Not just for that one fight.

Sealing him away or draining him are probably better options than trying for a kill. But even then, those wpuld be extra tricky to pull off and unlikely to stick. Even when he was turned into a mouse, he eventually shrugged it off with his own power iirc. Like nobody came and fixed him.

[daBronzeBomma]

It kinda feels like Dr. Fate has the better offensive feats, but Phantom Stranger has the better defensive feats.

Like, Fate can't kill Stranger, but Stranger can't do too much to Fate either. Could the good Doctor get a 10- count off of the Phantom Stranger?

Also, for default Rumbles settings, isn't the Arena set outside any publisher's multiverse? So DC's Presence shouldn't be able to grant protection to another character while they are in the Arena, which is outside the Presence's dominion?

Or am I thinking all wrong about this?

[The Chou Lives]

You are to a extent. Because unless stated characters keep their stuff including situational power ups that allow them to complete ( Matrix characters) so PS gets his protection. I think his defense our classes Fates offense and PS is capable of many, many tricks at a point he was wrestling down pissed off Spectre pretty damn evenly at his best and the Wrath If Gid could not kil or band him away and the said transmutation did not stick that long.


Fate is impressive, but he ain’t Spectre impressive.