If Cavill is truly out, should WB just abandon the DCEU?

[Osiris-Rex]

They've been desperate to kill Superman in a movie since 1992. They weren't going to wait any longer, sadly.

WB already killed Superman in Batman v Superman. Killing him again in the DCEU would be redundant. They only way it could possibly work is if they reboot Superman and not have him part of the DCEU.

Didn't they already kill him in Superman Returns?

Not that I recall. He was weakened by the kryptonite island, but I don't think he died. It's been a while since I watched Superman Returns though. BvS is the only time I recall him dying in live action.

[superduperman]

Part of the problem is, we don't know what the original arrangement was between Cavill and WB. Did they sign him to a certain number of films? Like Marvel does? Or is it just "we'll call you when we need you" type of arrangement? Because if he was signed to a certain number of movies and that quota was used up with the last one, then that might explain why he's fighting with them over money and reluctance to do the Shazam! cameo. But if this is about being sick of waiting around for them to make another Superman movie, I can kind of understand why he wants to move on. In which case, the problem is on WB's end. Especially if they had a slate of films lined up and the lack of success has made them rework everything. In other words, he was promised another Superman film by now and their schedule changes pulled that out from under him. Rumors said that BVS originally began life as a MOS sequel and was reworked to include Batman to get the universe off the ground.

WB themselves admit that they don't have any new Superman movies lined up anytime soon so it suggests they don't really have him signed for anything concrete. If they did, he'd probably have a case to make for breach of contract. I just don't want to see the DCEU become the new X-Men franchise where they spend the next decade trying to retcon Cavill out of continuity and "fix" the timeline.

[SiegePerilous02]

I say let Shazam take Superman's place in the DCEU for now. As it is right now, he'll probably prove more popular than Superman, much like he was in the 40's.
Shazam is pretty much Superman meets Harry Potter meets Big, and people are loving it. If Shazam hits it big, WB's Superman problem will be deciding whether to bring him back at all.
As she's the first superhero in the DCEU, Diana should be the center of the heroic community going forward. Get Gal Gadot to do the cameo in Shazam.

You have to realize that such a stance is not going to be well regarded on a Superman forum, right? Even among the fans who want to see Shazam and Wonder Woman as well.

[Sacred Knight]

Ehh, I don't want just Wonder Woman to succeed. As pissed as I am about the whole Superman situation, I still want Aquaman and Shazam to do well (even if I'm iffy on how the former will do). Those characters deserve good movies and their fans deserve to have them.

Oh I wish those properties success too, I have no reason not too. As of now WW is just the only success story as the aforementioned two films aren't out yet, so I tend to forget to mention those. But I hope those succeed, and if they do succeed, then I'll feel the same way about them as franchises; that I'd want them to operate as independent as possible to avoid the stink of the failed EU concept.

[bat39]

I think the DCEU, in the way that Snyder conceptualized it, is done. That doesn't mean the continuity itself is being rebooted away. Rather, I guess that moving forward, the parts they want to ignore (MOS, BvS, JL, probably Suicide Squad) will simply be ignored. In the meantime, WW, Aquaman, Shazam and their other planned solo films will move ahead, and whether there are any further team-ups or crossovers down the line is something they'll probably take a wait-and-watch approach to.

Frankly, I think a Flashpoint movie would be perfect from the continuity clean-up perspective, while also being a great film in and of itself. It could truly be to DC what DOFP was to the X-men films.

You have Flash as the central character in what is, in a way, a movie about the wider DCU. Wonder Woman and Aquaman play major roles, and even Shazam has a part, so you could have all those characters show up, played by the same actors. Ray Fisher's Cyborg could have a decent role as well. And for Batman, you can have Jeffrey Dean Morgan or someone else play Thomas Wayne. And the Kal-El in the story can be played by a totally different actor - it even makes sense in the context of the story.

In the aftermath, Flash fixes the timeline and BOOM. In the new reality, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam are pretty close to what they always were. But Superman and Batman have changed to their rebooted/soft-booted forms - Batman most likely being the version from Matt Reeves' film, if they want to go that route. Some events from the DCEU could in a 'broad strokes' sense still be part of continuity - Superman's death and return and the Justice League forming after an alien invasion. But the past and the future are now a clean slate by and large.

[Osiris-Rex]

I think the DCEU, in the way that Snyder conceptualized it, is done. That doesn't mean the continuity itself is being rebooted away. Rather, I guess that moving forward, the parts they want to ignore (MOS, BvS, JL, probably Suicide Squad) will simply be ignored. In the meantime, WW, Aquaman, Shazam and their other planned solo films will move ahead, and whether there are any further team-ups or crossovers down the line is something they'll probably take a wait-and-watch approach to.

I think Suicide Squad 2 will stay in the current continuity considering that Will Smith's Deadshot and Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn will be in it. It may be a little more independent, maybe no Affleck's Batman and Bruce Wayne in it.

Frankly, I think a Flashpoint movie would be perfect from the continuity clean-up perspective, while also being a great film in and of itself. It could truly be to DC what DOFP was to the X-men films.

You have Flash as the central character in what is, in a way, a movie about the wider DCU. Wonder Woman and Aquaman play major roles, and even Shazam has a part, so you could have all those characters show up, played by the same actors. Ray Fisher's Cyborg could have a decent role as well. And for Batman, you can have Jeffrey Dean Morgan or someone else play Thomas Wayne. And the Kal-El in the story can be played by a totally different actor - it even makes sense in the context of the story.

In the aftermath, Flash fixes the timeline and BOOM. In the new reality, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam are pretty close to what they always were. But Superman and Batman have changed to their rebooted/soft-booted forms - Batman most likely being the version from Matt Reeves' film, if they want to go that route. Some events from the DCEU could in a 'broad strokes' sense still be part of continuity - Superman's death and return and the Justice League forming after an alien invasion. But the past and the future are now a clean slate by and large.

I don't think WB is going for an ersatz Justice League 2 with the Flash movie. I think the current plan is that Flashpoint has been scrapped and it will be a stand-alone Flash movie with just Flash and Iris and what-ever villain they choose.
I doubt any of the other Justice League characters will even show up for a cameo.

[Badou]

The universe is basically dead anyway. Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn are the only things holding it together at the moment. If not for them they would have scraped the whole thing entirely. It was stupid of them to try and rush to a team up movie without properly setting up their individual franchises first. So many people said this and questioned why they were trying to rush so much and this is the end result.

Right now there doesn't seem to be any plan. Aquaman and Shazam seem to be completely independent and with that non canon Joker movie and word of a 70s era Supergirl movie being fast tracked I don't think DC/WB has a clue on what they should do. I think they are just going to scrape what movies they can together and hope that some of them are hits that they can make a few sequels off of like they are doing with Suicide Squad. The idea of a big connected Marvel-like universe is completely dead I think going forward.

[HeroVladimir93]

I think the consensus here is that DC should lay off the Justice League movies for a while and just keep focused on solo movies. I want Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman to hit it big so that, in time, Superman can get a chance to fly on the big screen again. Don't get me wrong; I like those heroes, but Superman has been the alpha hero for me.

[stargazer01]

The DCEU is dead. Buried.


It feels like it now. It will be interesting to see if Aquaman film has any references to the other movies and characters.

If Cavill is gone, I will be very surprised if WB keeps all the Superman references in Shazam movie... I smell some reshoots to add new scenes replacing those..

[Last Son of Krypton]

The DCEU is dead. Buried.


It feels like it now. It will be interesting to see if Aquaman film has any references to the other movies and characters. If Cavill is gone, I will be very surprised if WB keeps all the Superman references in that movie... I smell some reshoots to add new scenes replacing those..

According to the test screenings, Aquaman has a line referencing JL: Mera briefly mentioned that Arthur has joined someone to fight Steppenwolf. We'll see if it'll get cut in the final version of the movie.

[stargazer01]

According to the test screenings, Aquaman has a line referencing JL: Mera briefly mentioned that Arthur has joined someone to fight Steppenwolf. We'll see if it'll get cut in the final version of the movie.

Yup, heard it.

I edited my post and included Shazam movie too.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I edited my post and included Shazam movie too.

I'm curious too about Shazam! It would make little sense to keep references to MoS/BvS/JL that are supposed to lead to a cameo that will not be filmed.

[Killerbee911]

DC should never have copied Marvel's model of a shared universe. It should have been an anthology sequence of films from the start with no continuity commitments to anything but their own sequels. If a crossover was necessary for extra box office, they could have adapted a Crisis for a movie and bring in the various alternate realities.

DC never copied Marvel model. If DC had copied Marvel

Phase 1
1.Batman
2.Superman
3.Batman 2
4.Wonder woman
5.Flash
6.Justice League

Phase 2

Batman 3
Wonder Woman 2
Superman 2
Green Lantern
Justice League 2
Shazam

Just watching the setup you can see why marvel was successful Iron Man was the Anchor and just putting out successful Iron Man movies was enough stabilize the universe. With good Batman movies around all they had do put out solid movies safe movies and collect the bags. So no Marvel drew up the blueprint and handed it to DC. DC went no we are going to be dummies and ignore it and rush out Justice League. The worse part is DC now has all the ground work in place and they are looking to start over they have functioning cinematic universe they just need to make solid movies.

[bat39]

The DCEU is dead. Buried.


It feels like it now. It will be interesting to see if Aquaman film has any references to the other movies and characters.

If Cavill is gone, I will be very surprised if WB keeps all the Superman references in Shazam movie... I smell some reshoots to add new scenes replacing those..

Generic references to Superman and Batman really shouldn't be a problem. This is still the DC Universe. A version of Superman and Batman could still be out there. It doesn't necessarily have to be Cavill and Affleck's versions.

[talja_l]

This is something I've wondered about since the announcement that he was out as Superman. Given the fact that even before the announcement there were no Superman movies on the horizon, should the DCEU just continue on without him or should they just cut their losses and shut down and go back to the drawing board? Obviously things like WW1984 and Shazam! are still happening but what about things like the Flash movie or more JL? Or that Batman movie without Affleck? Should it just be it's own universe? It seems to me the DCEU is falling apart piece by piece. Given the problems it had even before these departures were announced, it would make sense in my mind to simply walk away from the DCEU and just start from scratch. I can't imagine a Superman-less DC movie universe. And if the Supergirl movie takes place before the planet's destruction, there's no reason it necessarily has to be in the DCEU. What do you think?

There is no chance the WB will stop producing Superhero movies based on the comics.