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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Default If Cavill is truly out, should WB just abandon the DCEU?

    This is something I've wondered about since the announcement that he was out as Superman. Given the fact that even before the announcement there were no Superman movies on the horizon, should the DCEU just continue on without him or should they just cut their losses and shut down and go back to the drawing board? Obviously things like WW1984 and Shazam! are still happening but what about things like the Flash movie or more JL? Or that Batman movie without Affleck? Should it just be it's own universe? It seems to me the DCEU is falling apart piece by piece. Given the problems it had even before these departures were announced, it would make sense in my mind to simply walk away from the DCEU and just start from scratch. I can't imagine a Superman-less DC movie universe. And if the Supergirl movie takes place before the planet's destruction, there's no reason it necessarily has to be in the DCEU. What do you think?
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  2. #2
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    This is something I've wondered about since the announcement that he was out as Superman. Given the fact that even before the announcement there were no Superman movies on the horizon, should the DCEU just continue on without him or should they just cut their losses and shut down and go back to the drawing board? Obviously things like WW1984 and Shazam! are still happening but what about things like the Flash movie or more JL? Or that Batman movie without Affleck? Should it just be it's own universe? It seems to me the DCEU is falling apart piece by piece. Given the problems it had even before these departures were announced, it would make sense in my mind to simply walk away from the DCEU and just start from scratch. I can't imagine a Superman-less DC movie universe. And if the Supergirl movie takes place before the planet's destruction, there's no reason it necessarily has to be in the DCEU. What do you think?
    Well first off there hasn't been a firm announcement from anyone about Cavill's future as Superman. Just rumors and conjecture. Now if I had to place odds on it, Cavill is probably gone, but as of right now nothing is confirmed.

    Having said all that...the DCEU is pretty much already done anyway. Upcoming movies may reference that continuity, but for now an interconnected universe that was attempted from BvS on is pretty much not happening anyway. The question is does WB make some grand announcement officially ending things or do they just make movies and let the results speak for themselves. So far it appears it's the later
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
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  3. #3
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    DC should never have copied Marvel's model of a shared universe. It should have been an anthology sequence of films from the start with no continuity commitments to anything but their own sequels. If a crossover was necessary for extra box office, they could have adapted a Crisis for a movie and bring in the various alternate realities.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    They probably should and just focus on the individual franchises and letting them be self contained within their own series. That seems to be pretty much what they are doing with Wonder Woman, her success is the main reason we haven't seen this scrapped altogether.

    From the beginning, they should have just had each franchise be self contained. That's pretty much how DC functions anyway, their major separate properties are not as inter connected as Marvel's. The team up movies like JL would similarly be self contained. You wouldn't have to see Superman's or Aquaman's solos to catch up on what is going in JL, they are just teaming up in a self contained adventure, it's just a bit bigger than their individual stories.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If there's no Superman there's no universe in my mind. That's obviously not the WB's mindset though. Their disrespect of the character is enough where they feel the universe set-up can exist without him. If that's their mindset then I'll gladly watch them drown.

    I just don't want the Wonder Woman franchise to go down with it because that's earned its success independently.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  6. #6
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    They’re actively contradicting Snyder’s continuity. He had WW “walk away” from humanity but both Patty and Gal have said they don’t agree with that, and WW 1984 is actively contradicting that. Supergirl might have arrived in the 1970s now and faces Brainiac which would make MoS nonsensical. They’re basically trying to build a new cinematic universe out of the corpse of the old one. But the Snyderverse and it’s vision is dead. Evil Superman isn’t happening, heck Superman at all isn’t happening. Affleck is almost certainly out.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    DC should never have copied Marvel's model of a shared universe. It should have been an anthology sequence of films from the start with no continuity commitments to anything but their own sequels. If a crossover was necessary for extra box office, they could have adapted a Crisis for a movie and bring in the various alternate realities.
    They should have copied it but they should have done it the right way. They should have given us first MOS2, Wonder Woman and then BvS. And if they were so desperate to kill Superman they should have waited for the end of Justice League.
    "By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
    Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    They've been desperate to kill Superman in a movie since 1992. They weren't going to wait any longer, sadly.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  9. #9
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    Didn't they already kill him in Superman Returns?

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If there's no Superman there's no universe in my mind. That's obviously not the WB's mindset though. Their disrespect of the character is enough where they feel the universe set-up can exist without him. If that's their mindset then I'll gladly watch them drown.

    I just don't want the Wonder Woman franchise to go down with it because that's earned its success independently.
    Ehh, I don't want just Wonder Woman to succeed. As pissed as I am about the whole Superman situation, I still want Aquaman and Shazam to do well (even if I'm iffy on how the former will do). Those characters deserve good movies and their fans deserve to have them.

  11. #11
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    The illusion of intercontinuity among the films can be held together with some unobtrusive interstitial material that amounts to little more than glorified Easter Eggs. That can be enough glue to hold it all together until a crossover film is ready to go.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
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  12. #12
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    DC's stable of characters doesn't really lend themselves to giant overarching narratives. The mythologies are diverse and the characters inhabit worlds that shouldn't be forced to connect, constantly.

    Occasionally having Superman help Batman out on a case, and/or bringing Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, and Cyborg together to face some giant existential threat can be done- but not as the norm.

    Honestly, Superman is more interesting on his own. They all are. You can hint at them coexisting, or have team ups if there's a story that calls for it but the Justice League is not the Avengers.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 09-16-2018 at 11:49 AM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    They've been desperate to kill Superman in a movie since 1992. They weren't going to wait any longer, sadly.
    They were so desperate that didn't realize they could have had their cake and eat it. How more impactful would have Superman's death been if they had given us MOS2? What if instead of reading headlines we could have actually seen Superman in action, becoming the beloved hero he was supposed to be at the end of BvS
    "By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
    Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If there's no Superman there's no universe in my mind. That's obviously not the WB's mindset though. Their disrespect of the character is enough where they feel the universe set-up can exist without him. If that's their mindset then I'll gladly watch them drown.

    I just don't want the Wonder Woman franchise to go down with it because that's earned its success independently.
    I say let Shazam take Superman's place in the DCEU for now. As it is right now, he'll probably prove more popular than Superman, much like he was in the 40's.
    Shazam is pretty much Superman meets Harry Potter meets Big, and people are loving it. If Shazam hits it big, WB's Superman problem will be deciding whether to bring him back at all.
    As she's the first superhero in the DCEU, Diana should be the center of the heroic community going forward. Get Gal Gadot to do the cameo in Shazam.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The illusion of intercontinuity among the films can be held together with some unobtrusive interstitial material that amounts to little more than glorified Easter Eggs. That can be enough glue to hold it all together until a crossover film is ready to go.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I agree. The DCU was not created to be a shared universe. It's a big number of fiefdoms residing in one kingdom. The heroes' worlds are so populated and insular that they don't need to meet unless it's a League issue.

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