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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Default Revisiting Olympos

    From the beginning, Wonder Woman has drawn on Greek mythology, and that is even more so since Pérez. However, as someone with an interest in especially Norse mythology, the polytheism, gods, and goddesses that have been presented in Wonder Woman feels a little flat, or perhaps rather too modern. Marston re-imagined the Amazons not out of some modern take on them, but rather based on his own crank theories on innate female superiority and examining the Greek myths about the Amazons without the misogyny of the Greeks.

    So why not attempt something similar for the gods and goddesses as well?

    I should probably preface this with an observation that I read in a book about Norse religion, but probably is applicable to classical Greek religion as well. The religion of the time had two parts: the stories (mythology) told and later written down, and the actual religious practices. Of the former, we know a fair bit. Of the latter, not so much. But the importance of a god (or goddess) to a person or society lie far more in the latter than the former. Thus, our modern-day view of Athena as a central figure in Greek mythology is to some degree a modern construct due to that she was the patron figure of Athena (who turned out to become the most important city-state), the amount of stories about her, and last modern lenses in trying to understand Greek religiousity.

    Part of this also comes from my idea that the Amazons could be regarded as nymphs of humanity and civilisation.

    Index:

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Hestia
    Last edited by kjn; 09-16-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Hestia

    Very little is known about Hestia from myths, and most of it are part of the stories of other gods. She was the eldest daughter of Rhea and Cronus, and thus sister to Zeus, Poseidon, Demeter, Hera, and Hades. After Zeus forced Cronus to disgorge his siblings, she was the last to appear; thus born both first an last. Both Apollo and Poseidon courted her, but she swore to remain a maiden in order to avoid strife between the gods. As a result Zeus gave her the duty to tend the fires of Olympos and receive the first of every offering to the gods. Another myth describes that after a feast the god Priapus attempted to rape her, but an ass brayed waking everyone up, after which Priapus was chased away. It is also described how she willingly gave up her throne in the Olympos for Dionysus.

    Some of the epithets used for Hestia were "Beloved", "Eternal", and "She of the public hearth". Of especial interest is the Orphic hymn to Hestia, which in one translation said she inspired "endless youth, wealth, benevolences, and holiness".

    She was the goddess of fire, especially the hearth, which was the central place in any building at that time. Aristotle apparently called the crackling of a fire for her laughter. She was also a goddess of architecture and the right ordering of the home and the state.

    So how can we reimagine and make use of Hestia for Wonder Woman? First observation is that if there is one goddess who can be said to embody loving submission, it is Hestia. Another is that her withdrawn nature makes her a natural candidate for giving the Amazons shelter on Themyscire, hiding them from the rest of the world. The notion of "eternal" (and even more "endless youth" in one translation) in the Orphic hymn fits with the Amazons being ageless or immortal on Themyscira. The right ordering of the state connects her with utopic ideas.

    Coupled with her importance in everyday religious life, all this points to that Hestia could be the central figure in the religious life of the Amazons. She used the Amazons to teach humanity about civilisation. She created the sanctuary of Themyscira after mankind rejected the Amazons. She grants the Amazons eternal youth. And given that the Golden Perfect has been described as the Lasso of Hestia, it might be read as that as long Diana has it by her side, she carries her own hearth with her, and thus Hestia's blessing and a piece of home.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Wasn't there also something about "the fires of Hestia"?

    I think they currently tied Diana's Lasso to "burning out the truth with the fires of Hestia" or something like that.

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    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Interesting thoughts and analysis kjn!

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Wasn't there also something about "the fires of Hestia"?

    I think they currently tied Diana's Lasso to "burning out the truth with the fires of Hestia" or something like that.
    No idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Interesting thoughts and analysis kjn!
    Thanks! Writing up Aphrodite now, which will be longer. I've already found some interesting tidbits, like bondage references.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Aprodite

    Aphrodite is one of the most popular classical Greek goddesses to this, being the goddess of love, beauty, pleasure, and procreation. Among her symbols are myrtles, roses, doves, sparrows, and sea-birds like swans. But she is quite a bit more than that.

    There are two origin myths for her, both by sources that are judged of high validity. In Theogony by Hesiod, Cronus cut off Uranus' genitals and threw them into the sea, and from these Aphrodite was born. In the Iliad, however, Aphrodite is the daughter of Zeus and the titaness Dione (which basically means "belongs to Zeus" or "of Zeus"). Plato claimed that these two were separate goddesses: Aphrodite Ourania (heavenly, and associated with male homosexual desire) and Aphrodite Pandemos (for the people, and associated with heterosexual desire).

    Some of the epithets used for her are "smile-loving", "merciful", "of the gardens", "mother", "armed", "whispering", "spying", "deceptive", "black one", "bringer of victory", and "gravedigger". This plethora of connections to both sex and war points to kinship with Inanna of Mesopotamia or Freya of Norse mythology, both of which had similar connections to war and death beside love and sex. Aphrodite was also both rewarding and revengeful. Of special interest with association to early Wonder Woman is that I have found some references of cult statues of her fettered or bound with chains, possibly only around her feet. Another variation from her early history is Aphroditus, where she is depicted with a phallus.

    There are of course lots of myths and stories associated with Aphrodite, and I'm only going to cover the high points of a select few that I judged interesting.

    One of the more famous ones is how after she was married to Hephaestus (which in itself seems to be a relatively modern invention in classical times), he heard that she had sex with Ares. He crafted a special bed, including some form of cage or a net, and when Ares and Aphrodite used it next time it trapped them both, after which all the other gods laughed at them. This also points to more bondage imagery.

    Hesiod describes how Aphrodite assisted in crafting Pandora out of clay as the first woman by posing for Hephaestus, and then that she gifted Pandora with beauty, grace, and sexual desire.

    Then is the Pygmalion myth, where the sculptor Pygmalion fell in love with the ivory statue of Aphrodite he was carving, Aphrodite brought the statue to life and Pygmalion married the former statue.

    Her vengefulness and anger is also shown in various myths, where her revenge often takes the form of excessive lust or sexually related punishment. Her warrior aspect is less common in myths, and mostly appears in the older ones and in Laconia (which includes Sparta).

    So how to connect all this to the Amazons, especially given that Aphrodite was there from the very beginning, crafting them herself in Marston's original run?

    First, the Pandora myth reads very much like an inversion of the Amazon creation story, where instead of Amazons carrying blessings from the goddesses, women carried curses to mankind, and instead of civilisation they spread discord. There are several ways to bring this together, e.g. by having Hestia taking Zeus role and leading the goddesses into teaching mankind to use fire safely (after Prometheus had taught them its use), or the goddesses creating the Amazons after Zeus had released Pandora as a form of penance.

    Second, Aphrodite is connected with not one but two myths where women are crafted from clay.

    Third is of course the bondage references. While quite tenous, when taken together with the widespread bondage in early Wonder Woman, this is something that should be explored. Have some of the Amazon statues or picturs of Aphrodite showing her chained or bound, and include lots of allusions to Aphrodite whenever an Amazon is bound or binds someone. The bed was not crafted as a trap, but for consensual bondage.

    Fourth is the story of Aphroditus, which carries with it the seed that the Amazons knew about and welcomed trans women. It is quite common for gods to be nebolous in their sex and gender, but here it is associated with one of the Amazon core goddesses.

    Fifth is of course that Aphrodite included a warrior goddess aspect, and one rooted in passion and anger. This gives a stronger resonance when the Amazons ask for her aid when they have been enslaved by Heracles.

    Sixth, what if Plato got it half wrong about Aphrodite Ourania, and she not only was the goddess of male homosexual desire, but of female homosexual desire as well, or simply was the goddess of female sexuality? (After all, having a goddess for male homosexual desire only makes sense given slash logic.) Given the Greek view of female sexuality, it would fit very well, but I'm not fully sure. Lets see if we manage to find a better fit to lesbian love later on, shall we?
    Last edited by kjn; 10-19-2018 at 02:30 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Wasn't there also something about "the fires of Hestia"?

    I think they currently tied Diana's Lasso to "burning out the truth with the fires of Hestia" or something like that.
    I think the "Fires of Hestia" is a reference to the "hearth". Ancient greeks always kept a fireplace/hearth burning in their homes so you could think of Hestia as the goddess of the home as well.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    The solicitation for Wonder Woman 64 and 65 mentions that Veronica Cale will get some form of connection with the goddess Nemesis, so lets see what there is to say about her.

    Nemesis

    Nemesis belonged to the group the Greek called Daemones (singular Daimona), and which were personified spirits. Their names were often rather literal, so for the ancient Greeks, e.g. "Eros" simply was one word for "love". They could represent feelings, abstract concepts, qualities, or morality. Most had very little associated mythology or cult, but Nemesis was one of the exceptions, both in her name and in that she had both cult and mythology.

    Nowadays, Nemesis is mostly associated with revenge and jealosy, but to the ancient Greeks she was different: her name can be translated as "dispenser of dues". She was the goddess of resentment against those who got away with crimes, indignation against evil deeds and undeserved good fortune, and retribution against their beneficiaries. In her role as the dispenser of dues she maintained the equilibrum, and measured out happiness and unhappiness to everyone. But her role as dispensing loss and suffering later came to dominate. She especially took an interest in matters of love. As an example, when Ameinias was cruelly spurned by Narcissus, he called upon Nemesis upon his suicide outside Narcissus's door, and asked her to avenge him.

    Depending on source, she had different parentage. Hesiod says she was born by Nyx alone (the Night, and one of the primordial gods, older than even the Titans). The Homerica Cypria however gives her father as Zeus, with no mother mentioned. Other sources say her father was Okeanos or Erebos. She also bore children. Most interesting here is that the Homerica Cypria says she was the mother of Helen of Troy, after Zeus pursued and raped her. Zeus certainly isn't a nice guy in Greek myth.

    Among her attributes can be found the apple-branch, the rein, the lash, the sword, and the balance. Some depictions give her wings, but this appears to have been noteworthy even in classical times. She didn't have many epithets, but one was "Inescapable".

    Given the above, I believe there are lots of different directions that Wilson can take Nemesis in. A goddess of indignation against evil deeds and who makes sure everyone has a share of both happiness and unhappiness would handle very differently from a goddess of justified grudges and indignation, and then we have the modern interpretation of her where they certainly don't need to be justified.

    I don't think that Wilson will use the same trick as she used with Ares and Aphrodite, of the god trying to renounce their earlier area of responsibility. For one, it would be repetitive after awhile. For another, there isn't much of a personality or imagery around Nemesis to work with. I believe it's more likely that Wonder Woman will try to attempt to bring Nemesis from a more modern interpretation of her, back to the older form as the dispenser of dues. But even that I'd give no more than a fifty-fifty chance.

    In any case, the connection between Veronica Cale and Nemesis feels earned and as a good match.

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