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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Well, "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" has been vindicated by history, OMD has not (in terms of the stories themselves, not talking about the repercussions on the franchise). Also, a lot of OMD division and controversy is centered on whether the retcon to the status quo was good/needed/etc. or not. (In fact, I think that the the "OMD discussion" has not become about the story itself but the marriage.)
    I do think "making a deal with the devil" is the real major sticking point to why people hate it so much. I believe if it had just been something like a divorce, people would've still been upset but the backlash would not nearly be as bad.

  2. #17
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I do think "making a deal with the devil" is the real major sticking point to why people hate it so much. I believe if it had just been something like a divorce, people would've still been upset but the backlash would not nearly be as bad.
    I, for one, hate it becomes IT MAKES NO SENSE in-universe. You mean to tell me in Marvel Comics there is no one other than Mephisto who could save an old woman who has been shot? And that is just the most glaring problem. The story was created and shoehorned into continuity because it served an editorial purpose not because it was a good or even logically functional tale. It is a clear cut example of bad writing at its absolute worst. Even as a lowly fanfic author I would NEVER write something so terrible. While I'm not against the idea of a single Peter Parker there had to be a better way than OMD to get there.
    Last edited by Celgress; 09-18-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I, for one, hate it becomes IT MAKES NO SENSE in-universe. You mean to tell me in Marvel Comics there is no one other than Mephisto who could save an old woman who has been shot? And that is just the most glaring problem. The story was created and shoehorned into continuity because it served an editorial purpose not because it was a good or even logically functional tale. It is a clear cut example of bad writing at its absolute worst. Even as a lowly fanfic author I would NEVER write something so terrible. While I'm not against the idea of a single Peter Parker there had to be a better way than OMD to get there.
    I agree, I wouldn't have had as big of an issue if they had just done what ended up happening in the second half of One Moment In Time. I can kind of understand why they didn't because divorcing would "ruin/cheapen their love", but I don't think "making a deal with the devil so you were never married to begin with" is the better option of the two.

    And like you said, the other major problem is compared to other badly executed stories like Sins Past or Spider-Man Reign, at least they are fully-fledged stories and the problems just come from the storytelling decisions. One More Day exists not to be a story, just an excuse to semi-reboot the book and character, so the bad decisions are that much more transparent.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I do think "making a deal with the devil" is the real major sticking point to why people hate it so much. I believe if it had just been something like a divorce, people would've still been upset but the backlash would not nearly be as bad.
    Depends on the person. I know some people who've said they would've accepted that (or would accept post-OMD staying the way it is if OMD itself was somehow "erased" from the fictional timeline despite the marriage never happening in the resulting world). Personally, I reject the intent (to un-marry Spider-Man) so utterly that it's a same difference situation for me.

    Anyways, I think the way that the characters had progressed, a divorce would've been as out of character as the deal with the devil, so I wouldn't be surprised if a "divorce OMD" had gotten similar flack as the actual comic did. But I guess that goes back to the central question; was the backlash centered mostly on the method of breaking up Spidey and MJ or that there was a breakup in the first place? I don't know, but I think that OMD was always going to be a lightning rod for fan controversy and one that really hasn't let up that much, despite the comic itself having been able to survive and thrive off of the new status quo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    And like you said, the other major problem is compared to other badly executed stories like Sins Past or Spider-Man Reign, at least they are fully-fledged stories and the problems just come from the storytelling decisions. One More Day exists not to be a story, just an excuse to semi-reboot the book and character, so the bad decisions are that much more transparent.
    I don't think that stories that written just for the sake bridging the gap between point A and point B (esp. if they're nothing more then a retcon) usually work out that well. Star Trek's Search For Spock is the only one I can think of that does okay; it's only reason for existing is "we want to put Spock in more movies after this one," but they do remember to make it an actual story.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Depends on the person. I know some people who've said they would've accepted that (or would accept post-OMD staying the way it is if OMD itself was somehow "erased" from the fictional timeline despite the marriage never happening in the resulting world). Personally, I reject the intent (to un-marry Spider-Man) so utterly that it's a same difference situation for me.

    Anyways, I think the way that the characters had progressed, a divorce would've been as out of character as the deal with the devil, so I wouldn't be surprised if a "divorce OMD" had gotten similar flack as the actual comic did. But I guess that goes back to the central question; was the backlash centered mostly on the method of breaking up Spidey and MJ or that there was a breakup in the first place? I don't know, but I think that OMD was always going to be a lightning rod for fan controversy and one that really hasn't let up that much, despite the comic itself having been able to survive and thrive off of the new status quo.

    I don't think that stories that written just for the sake bridging the gap between point A and point B (esp. if they're nothing more then a retcon) usually work out that well. Star Trek's Search For Spock is the only one I can think of that does okay; it's only reason for existing is "we want to put Spock in more movies after this one," but they do remember to make it an actual story.
    I feel like majority of the backlash is centered on the method, because obviously most people are going to be upset about the breakup no matter what, but considering how synonymous OMD and the character of Mephisto are anytime you mention one of the other, I think the "deal with the devil" is what sticks with people as the most unacceptable. I agree it would've felt out of character no matter what, but I still find it to be a bit more, for lack of a better term, believable.

    I also think another reason people don't like it isn't just the breakup, but also completely wiping the marriage from the canon, especially with the wishy-washy nature of trying to have it both ways, the whole "everything still happening exactly the same, they just weren't married".

  6. #21
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I feel like majority of the backlash is centered on the method, because obviously most people are going to be upset about the breakup no matter what, but considering how synonymous OMD and the character of Mephisto are anytime you mention one of the other, I think the "deal with the devil" is what sticks with people as the most unacceptable. I agree it would've felt out of character no matter what, but I still find it to be a bit more, for lack of a better term, believable....
    I say my idea for OMD would satisfy everyone, well, maybe not the Hardcore Spider-Marriage Fanatics. It also makes Peter Parker an even more tragic figure and feeds into his maxim of power & responsibility. Really I'm shocked Marvel did not use this type of senario instead of what we saw. -

    Spider-Man has to save a busload full of middle school children on a field trip who became endangered by a villain fighting him. The bus is falling over a steep ravine and Spidey knows his webbing won't hold for much longer. In that moment of desperation, Mephisto appears. Mephisto offers to save the kids if Spider-Man gives up his relationship with MJ (for the reasons stated in canon). With no other choice and time rapidly running out Spider-Man takes the deal. Peter's & MJ's Marriage is erased from existence because Peter never made it to the wedding and MJ then broke up with him (they have been on rocky terms ever since). Peter remembers the previous reality and considers somehow undoing the change. Mephisto appears before him and accuses Peter of being selfish. Mephisto tells Peter if he breaks the deal the children will surely die and that Peter put them in danger, to begin with. Very reluctantly Peter agrees to leave the deal in place. Mephisto leaves but not before warning Peter to never tell anyone or try to undo the deal again or else. A couple of nights later Peter stands on a tall building contemplating how horrible his life is. He toys with the idea of giving up being Spider-Man, as it has brought him nothing but misery. He hears someone in trouble and saves that person. The person thanks him. Peter sees at that moment how much the world still needs a hero which gives him the strength to go on.
    Last edited by Celgress; 09-20-2018 at 06:05 PM.
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  7. #22
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    I don't know, I think the only way OMD would've "worked" is if it had been MJ, not Peter's aunt, on the line; irregardless of what one thinks of making a deal with the devil, I think it would be more understandable if Peter prevented his marriage from happening in order to save his wife's life. Instead of effectively stabbing his partner in the back, he gets put in a morton's fork of a situation that I'm sure a lot of us would do if it were us on the hot seat.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  8. #23
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I don't know, I think the only way OMD would've "worked" is if it had been MJ, not Peter's aunt, on the line; irregardless of what one thinks of making a deal with the devil, I think it would be more understandable if Peter prevented his marriage from happening in order to save his wife's life. Instead of effectively stabbing his partner in the back, he gets put in a morton's fork of a situation that I'm sure a lot of us would do if it were us on the hot seat.
    That would've been the better way to go, if they had to go like that. And just to twist the knife, Mephisto reveals that MJ would have recovered eventually, as she was young and healthy compared to Aunt May, meaning Peter throwing away their relationship to save her life was completely pointless, just like what Mephisto did to Johnny Blaze when he sold his soul for the sake of saving his father.
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  9. #24
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    I would say top ten:

    10. Rhino's brutal, so-violent only a silhouette can leave us to our imaginations, mauling of New Rhino
    9. Spider-Man's mask-on sex with Black Cat, Brand New Day period
    8. "Shed" - Lizard's chewing of his son, influence to allow people to rape
    7. "Torment" - first of several outrageous characterizations of Lizard's mindless murderous monstrosity
    6) That part in "Fearful Symmetry" that had Vermin stalking a woman, with his mind narrations going "yum", his next panel assumably had him eating her flesh off her carcass like a rack of meat.
    5) Maximum Carnage - how many people almost each part stabbed up through their backs, by Carnage and his crew?
    4) Clone Saga, which I took solace in Untold Tales of Spider-Man instead that period
    3) The "death" / separation of Mary Jane from Peter, 2000 - 2003 period
    2) Sins Past - the retcon of Gwen / Norman in bed, complete with Pete's visualization of Osborn's "face"
    1) One More Day / One Moment In Time, the first; act to have it status quo changingly done; the second; changed from living together in marriage, to just living / sleeping together.

  10. #25
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    ....1) One More Day / One Moment In Time, the first; act to have it status quo changingly done; the second; changed from living together in marriage, to just living / sleeping together.
    This is another aspect of OMD/OMIT that I find extremely offensive. The implication that if a person isn't married to their partner the love they share is less significant. A very close friend of my family growing up happen to be gay. He and his partner stayed together forty years and could only get married until a couple years before he died of an illness because of legal reasons. They were one of the sweetest most loving couples you ever wanted to meet. Maybe I'm taking this to personal but the way the Marvel Office treated MJ/Peter left a very bad taste in my mouth. This is one of the many reasons I doubt I'll ever give OMD a pass. I doubt anyone could have handled the whole situation worse than those in the Marvel Office did.
    Last edited by Celgress; 09-23-2018 at 04:06 PM.
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