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  1. #1

    Default Thor vs. Apocalypse (Movie Versions)

    I think this was done before and consensus was that Apoc can beat Mjolnir Thor.

    Do his various upgrades and Stormbreaker change the outcome?
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  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    I kind of wonder if Apocalypse can trap Stormbreaker enough to make a difference. Obviously the axe can return just like Mjolnir, but you don't have to be worthy to pick it up, either.

    And, all that mumbo jumbo about Thor saying that the Guardians can't wield weapons like that because they'd be driven mad from being unable to comprehend its power? That sounds like Apocalypse could possibly handle it.

    Other than that, though, Apocalypse's big weakness, it seems, is that he has to know about and adapt to powers before his body can create a suitable defense, such as eventually developing the reflexes and awareness to track Quicksilver's speedblitz when previously (or after), he never had superspeed. For Thor, all he'd need to do is to hurl the axe straight through him; that would never ever give Apocalypse a second chance to adapt to Thor's powers, whatever that may look like.

  3. #3
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Poccy is pretty badass, but not "IG full blast" badass. This should be "bell, Stormbreaker through the head, over." Or Thor just Bifrosts the guy into the sun or something.

    As far as the worthy thing, well, we just don't know about that yet. Nobody else has tried to pick the thing up*, and it sure seemed tied to Thor like Mjolnir was: he was unconscious and dying when the thing came to him and healed him right on up.

    * Please don't say that Groot picked it up. He most definitely did not: he wove together the unformed pieces of the head into a handle with his own body, and was clearly in pain once he did, then cut that part off, which caused the weapon to "form" completely. Nobody ever picks the thing up again.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Poccy is pretty badass, but not "IG full blast" badass. This should be "bell, Stormbreaker through the head, over." Or Thor just Bifrosts the guy into the sun or something.

    As far as the worthy thing, well, we just don't know about that yet. Nobody else has tried to pick the thing up*, and it sure seemed tied to Thor like Mjolnir was: he was unconscious and dying when the thing came to him and healed him right on up.

    * Please don't say that Groot picked it up. He most definitely did not: he wove together the unformed pieces of the head into a handle with his own body, and was clearly in pain once he did, then cut that part off, which caused the weapon to "form" completely. Nobody ever picks the thing up again.
    IIRC, the Russo brothers said it wasn't enchanted in the same way as Mjolnir.

    Which fits because Thor wasn't touching it at all when Thanos was sitting there post snap. It was just hanging in his chest. If it were like Mjolnir, it would have split Thanos down the middle on it's decent to the ground, or at least pinned and immobilized him.

    Even Mjolnir didnt do it's thing until after a spur of the moment Odin modifier.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Couldn't Apocalypse just use his TP on Thor?

  6. #6
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Even Mjolnir didnt do it's thing until after a spur of the moment Odin modifier.
    Eh, I don't know about THAT there: the spur of the moment modifier was making Thor's power tied to the worthiness thing. But the hammer was just sitting in the weapons vault, it already did the "come back to me" thing well before the enchantment, and Odin said something about Thor's specific ability to wield the hammer during the throneroom scene in Thor 1. I think the "be worthy to lift me" thing was in place well before.

    And in any case, Thor most definitely showed the ability to mentally control both hammers when they were not in his hand, in pretty much the exact same fashion, so it is absolutely as likely that he didn't have it split the guy in half or drill him to the center of the earth because he explicitly wanted Thanos to suffer, to see Thor fly down, and to hear him gloat as he twisted the thing in his chest by hand. Thanos could not / did not either remove the hammer or grab it and do anything with it or to it, suggesting that some level of a similar enchantment might be in place. And given all of the other things Thor had the axe do in the combat scene, he had a huge stack of ways to end Thanos that he simply didn't use for PIS. Through the head, cut off the hand, flatten Thanos to the ground, fly his body up into the Wakanda forcefield, fly him into the sun, Bifrost him into a star, Bifrost just his hand into a black hole or straight to Asgard: these are all things he chose not to do for vengeance/PIS.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
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  7. #7
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Couldn't Apocalypse just use his TP on Thor?
    Sure, but Poccy never hurts anyone of Thor's level, certainly not before SB crosses the gap and takes off his head.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Eh, I don't know about THAT there: the spur of the moment modifier was making Thor's power tied to the worthiness thing. But the hammer was just sitting in the weapons vault, it already did the "come back to me" thing well before the enchantment, and Odin said something about Thor's specific ability to wield the hammer during the throneroom scene in Thor 1. I think the "be worthy to lift me" thing was in place well before.

    And in any case, Thor most definitely showed the ability to mentally control both hammers when they were not in his hand, in pretty much the exact same fashion, so it is absolutely as likely that he didn't have it split the guy in half or drill him to the center of the earth because he explicitly wanted Thanos to suffer, to see Thor fly down, and to hear him gloat as he twisted the thing in his chest by hand. Thanos could not / did not either remove the hammer or grab it and do anything with it or to it, suggesting that some level of a similar enchantment might be in place. And given all of the other things Thor had the axe do in the combat scene, he had a huge stack of ways to end Thanos that he simply didn't use for PIS. Through the head, cut off the hand, flatten Thanos to the ground, fly his body up into the Wakanda forcefield, fly him into the sun, Bifrost him into a star, Bifrost just his hand into a black hole or straight to Asgard: these are all things he chose not to do for vengeance/PIS.
    Making a loooot of assumptions there.
    https://www.cbr.com/why-goot-can-lif...inity-war/amp/
    Word of God says it has no worthiness enchantment.

    And there was way more PIS coming from Thanos. He could have turned Thor into bubbles or whatever instead of "LAAAASER BEAM!"

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Sure, but Poccy never hurts anyone of Thor's level, certainly not before SB crosses the gap and takes off his head.
    TP, not TK.
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Sure, but Poccy never hurts anyone of Thor's level, certainly not before SB crosses the gap and takes off his head.
    Thor also has no feats of shrugging off TP either.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Not commenting on Thor/Apocalypse's mental feats or lack thereof, but it makes you wonder why he didn't use that TP on the X-Men as a whole in the final battle.

    Whereas TP battles or defenses were explicitly shown in several prior movies, such as Xavier freezing entire crowds and the Brotherhood simultaneously in the first movie, or the importance of Sebastian Shaw's helmet in the first two First Class movies.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Not commenting on Thor/Apocalypse's mental feats or lack thereof, but it makes you wonder why he didn't use that TP on the X-Men as a whole in the final battle.

    Whereas TP battles or defenses were explicitly shown in several prior movies, such as Xavier freezing entire crowds and the Brotherhood simultaneously in the first movie, or the importance of Sebastian Shaw's helmet in the first two First Class movies.
    He was multitasking like CRAZY in that final battle. Simultaneously engaging and defending from all those heroes + waging mental warfare against Xavier.

    I'm guessing he was just stretched thin.
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  12. #12
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Isn't Apoc much better at defensive TP than offensive?

    I thought he needed Xavier's body to really talk into that wide reaching telepathic power.

  13. #13

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    I think it's less an issue of power, and more of scale. But it's hard to say either way.
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  14. #14
    Peter Scott SpiderClops's Avatar
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    The movie explicitly says that Apocalypse doesn't have telepathy, that's why he wanted Xavier, because he wanted that power. Poccy has defense against TP, however.

    BUT then again, he also controlled Xavier in Cerebro, and made him launch all the nuclear weapons in the sky. So the movie just forgot about that, I guess?

    Movie Apocalypse is the very definition of "powers are whatever the f%&k plot demands them to be".

  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Thor also has no feats of shrugging off TP either.
    Sorry about that - as pointed out, I misread as TK. I sheepishly withdraw that statement as applicable.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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