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  1. #16
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    It seems to me within this thread there are two contradicting beliefs regarding who's to blame for having Dick get shot in the head, one pointing toward Lobdell, the other King. Can someone please shed some light on the situation?

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ten_to_Three View Post
    It seems to me within this thread there are two contradicting beliefs regarding who's to blame for having Dick get shot in the head, one pointing toward Lobdell, the other King. Can someone please shed some light on the situation?
    I mean in the end, this is Kings story, so it's King if you're wondering. Lobdell is the one who has to deal with a 'Nightwing whose been shot' aftermath story that has been set up by King, since Percy (Nightwings writer) didn't want to deal with it.

  3. #18
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    No ones blaming Lobdell. He’s just coming in now cause they have no one else to write this “evolution of Dick Grayson” and they need to get something out. He’s not behind this, but I sure as hell ain’t happy that he is who they had to resort to last minute to try and do something with this.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 09-19-2018 at 09:51 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    I mean in the end, this is Kings story, so it's King if you're wondering. Lobdell is the one who has to deal with a 'Nightwing whose been shot' aftermath story that has been set up by King, since Percy (Nightwings writer) didn't want to deal with it.
    Ah. I see. Thanks. I now dread Lobdell's Nightwing, seeing amnesiac Dick isn't even his idea to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    No ones blaming Lobdell. He’s just coming in now cause they have no one else to write this “evolution of Dick Grayson” and they need to get something out. He’s not behind this, but I sure as hell ain’t happy that he is who they had to resort to last minute to try and do something with this.
    Thanks for clearing things up. I feel the same regarding the future of Nightwing.
    Last edited by Ten_to_Three; 09-19-2018 at 09:55 AM.

  5. #20
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    No ones blaming Lobdell. He’s just coming in now cause they have no one else to write this “evolution of Dick Grayson” and they need to get something out. He’s not behind this, but I sure as hell ain’t happy that he is who they had to resort to last minute to try and do something with this.
    Yeah they're throwing him into the fire and telling him to swim.

    And co-opting what others have said, King still has not improved in his dialogue.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    I'm still baffled by the fact that King can write both Batman and Mister Miracle, when one has become a train wreck and the other is really, really great.

    I mean, why shoot Nightwing ? The guy love being a superhero, Percy didn't want it and bailed (and D.C. should have realized that it wasn't a good idea to have your current writer leave in the middle of an arc over something so stupid).

    I love Lodbell's on RHatO, so I hope he brings his a-game, but I don't think Nightwing's fan will be happy about his style, no matter what story he pushes, and he'll be decried as a "bad writer" or someone only fit for the "terrible Robin" (usually by peoples who haven't read the RHatO series and don't know how great Jason as a character has become thanks to them).

    But it's kind of insane that D.C. had a pure gem with Grayson, a good Nightwing run before Blüdhaven and since then everything's gone downhill. But I guess "New 52 was a disaster" so all of it had to disappear or something.

  7. #22
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    Well if you want to get technical about it the New 52 really is the problem at core. Grayson was a lightning in a bottle scenario pitched by Seeley based on Morrison's run which was rooted in the Pre Flashpoint continuity. Beyond that Dick has struggled ever since the New 52 made the dumb decision to make him Nightwing again out of the blue. Had he continued being Batman for 2 more years and then transitioned to Agent 37 then I think we'd be looking at a different picture. It was all doable too, Seeley and King's Spyral story was a direct continuation of Batman Inc anyway.

  8. #23
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    Trying this new direction isn’t really my issue personally. I mean doing what this issue did, it’s hard to swallow but if it lead to something interesting ok. I mean we got Grayson from FE, and that was brutal on Dick too. And the whole amnesia angle could be used to introduce a new perspective on the character and reboot some this things.
    The problem here though, is that regardless of the direction, the people in charge of actually putting it together absolutely suck, or just don’t really give a crap. They have been struggling to put anything together for Nightwing since Seeley wanted out, they finally started something with Percy and the Dark Web but then cut that for this. Which ok, that happens, but guess what its not like they really had a plan in place , or someone who had a interesting idea or story for this direction.
    So here they are again struggling to put this together before it even starts. Leaving Nightwing and Nightwing readers with Something Last Minute by Scott Lobdell. Intentional or not, that what Nightwing is being left with from this, and after 50 issues and supporting a double ship, that’s what Nightwing readers are gonna be presented with thanks to this. Something Last Minute by Scott Lobdell. And I’m sorry that sucks, that just sucks.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 09-19-2018 at 12:04 PM.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    I guess now we know who to give credit to for Grayson. How is Kin's voice for Dick so bad?

  10. #25
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    Not as good as the last issue. Some interesting and logical character dynamics but at the same time and as usual, King just has to push it a bit too much by making Dick as obnoxious as possible, I know the point is to contrast his lighthearted personality to Bruce's grim behavior but he makes so many annoying puns that what happens at the end to him feels kinda like he deserves it.

    Good art though.

  11. #26
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    At least we finally got the big traumatic moment for Dick. Ok issue overall.
    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I guess now we know who to give credit to for Grayson. How is Kin's voice for Dick so bad?
    Nah, Grayson was the result of King AND Seeley working together, that’s what made it great. I liked Seeley’s Nightwing run but that still wasn’t as good as Grayson. It’s like Star Wars: The product of multiple people working together at a certain time and place, not just one person.

  12. #27
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    My main beef is actually that the Nightwing follow-up will happen elsewhere and not in this story itself.

    If you look at King's run as a whole, and go BEFORE Batman started to his run with Grayson with Seeley, and of course include Seeley's Rebirth Nightwing stuff, this is almost actually a sort of natural soap operatic direction to take Dick in, too. Like James Bond getting amnesia at the end of You Only Live Twice then next being seen trying to assassinate M in Golden Gun, there's a good spy arc there. Plus there's irony of balance - Season 2 of Grayson featured Dick interacting with an amnesiac Bruce, after all. Plus there's all the focus lately on how Dick Grayson KNOWS A LOT of superhero secrets and one of his greatest assets is his huge network of people he knows - his being central in the community of it all.

    It's effective to take that away not just to validate a Bruce vs. Bane storyline, but also as a sort of "worst thing to overcome" storyline for Dick, too.

    Personally I'm curious to see where they take it.

    If I was writing it, after Tom's direct fallout stuff happens in this Beast storyline, and if they really wanted to push the amnesiac beat, I'd have Dick wake up freshly recruited by the NEW SPYRAL, spin the wheel and go full blown Agent Nightwing. But I'd use it to tell the next great Dick Grayson epic.
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  13. #28
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    Instead it seems they are just gonna stick him back in Bludhaven so he can try to be normal. LoL, ya...

  14. #29
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Seely could really have run with this in the NIGHTWING title, too bad he is off the book.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    You'd think King would be more aware of throwing Dick under the bus for a "shocking moment" given he wrote Grayson, which came about from Johns throwing Dick under the bus in Forever Evil and having no desire to anything with it. You would think that if King was going to do something like this he'd at least have a plan for the character and want to follow up on it, but no, there is no plan. He shot Dick in the head for shock value and is going to throw it over to the Nightwing writers to deal with the fallout. Just like Johns did. Percy didn't like this story being forced on him and cut off his own story so he bailed (rightfully so) and DC scrambled to dump Lobdell on the book to deal with this fallout in the most boring and unimaginative way possible with a writer very few readers like. It is just so distasteful, imo.

    It fucking sucks. I really think that there is a contingent at DC that wants to undermine Dick's character given the long list of things that have been done to him since the New 52. All his history and stories that were taken away from him and given to other characters, constantly being thrown in other stories and forcing new directions on him, so much creative turnover and the amount of writers that have been frustrated with writing him. It all is so disheartening.

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