Avengers #8 Review/SPOILERS

[MichaelC]

It's trying to mimic funny movie moments like Tony saying Aunt May is sexy, but the frozen pacing of comics makes it not work. It feels like a long, creepy scene of sexual aggression rather than a quick, silly joke. Some things that work in movies don't work in comics.

[JKtheMac]

It's trying to mimic funny movie moments like Tony saying Aunt May is sexy, but the frozen pacing of comics makes it not work. It feels like a long, creepy scene of sexual aggression rather than a quick, silly joke. Some things that work in movies don't work in comics.

But surely you don't see anything wrong with Aunt May quips? From my perspective, that was also supposed to feel creepy from Peter's perspective, and the joke relies upon that, so that's an odd example. Thor is supposed to feel uncomfortable here too. Its thematically linked to Jen leaning into her situation and embracing it. She isn't embarrassed that while she Hulked-out she kissed Thor. Thor is not sure how to handle it in the cold light of day. Humour springs from that. It seems to be paced fine to me. I got it and I smiled and I moved on. Job done.

It is not like Aaron is new to using humour in his comics. What is true that his more humorous takes on characters are divisive. Wolverine and the X-men being a classic example of a much loved and yet much derided series. Not everyone will enjoy it but so be it. Many of us will.

If people are looking for a super serious comic this isn't the one to read. If people want a serious Thor or a Jen that wouldn't flirt in order to make Thor uncomfortable then look elsewhere. Those of us that think the USP of Marvel has always been to not take things too seriously and to sometimes lean into the silliness, will enjoy it. Personally I love both types of comic and believe they can exist side by side. If I only wanted super serious I wouldn't read Marvel.

P.S. This isn't an example of Bathos if anyone is wondering. It is just playing to the slightly awkward MCU style character of Thor. Like most of those things, not without precedence in the MU.

[Prof. Warren]

This is what? the second time he's saying something like that to Carol? Like I said, it's intended to be funny but it really isn't.

Well, I'm sure some readers took it as humorous.

Clearly, cracking jokes is Tony's way - ill-advised or not - of trying to disarm Carol.

Tony has had more than enough experience in the romance department for him to actually believe that making crude passes is going to get him anyplace with Carol.

He's just having fun with her. In an immature manner, yes, but he's certainly not trying to seriously woo her.

Given their history (and the fact that Civil War 2 happened over the death of Tony's best friend and her lover that's recently been resurrected) it comes across as inappropriate.

Why? If characters in comics dealt with things the way normal people do and reacted to the extreme situations that they find themselves in on a daily basis in the way regular people would, they'd all be miserable or insane or wired so tight they wouldn't be able to function.

Tony went into a coma and came back, Rhodey died and came back. And as a team, The Avengers just vanquished a threat to the planet and will probably face another one next Tuesday. These are not people who are going to get overly twisted about a juvenile remark or hold on to too much personal baggage.

[Vic Vega]

Hey, Avengers Mansion is classy as all heck, and wholly original compared to a Mountain HQ .

Funny thing is the Avengers have already had a moutainside cave HQ, albeit an emergency one.

It first showed up in Avengers #16 (Vol. 1), when the public had briefly turned against the Avengers (because of a crime spree done by impostor, irrc) and they needed a hide out.

Last time I remember seeing it used or even mentioned was in Young Avengers (Iron Lad was using it as his base, I think).

[JKtheMac]

Funny thing is the Avengers have already had a moutainside cave HQ, albeit an emergency one.

It first showed up in Avengers #16 (Vol. 1), when the public had briefly turned against the Avengers (because of a crime spree done by impostor, irrc) and they needed a hide out.

Last time I remember seeing it used or even mentioned was in Young Avengers (Iron Lad was using it as his base, I think).

I suspect Aaron wants to lean into the idea of the Avengers as deities so this is supposed to be a whacky Mount Olympus. A cave system inside a mountain is not quite the same as a mountainous, iced up, huge Celestial corpse at the top of the world. Like I said before this feels quite cartoon like. I think that is deliberate.

[Vic Vega]

I suspect Aaron wants to lean into the idea of the Avengers as deities so this is supposed to be a whacky Mount Olympus. A cave system inside a mountain is not quite the same as a mountainous, iced up, huge Celestial corpse at the top of the world. Like I said before this feels quite cartoon like. I think that is deliberate.

Yeah, I got that.

That kind of thing works better for the Justice League, IMO (I'm not really feeling Aaron's run in general).

[JKtheMac]

Yeah, I got that.

That kind of thing works better for the Justice League, IMO (I'm not really feeling Aaron's run in general).

But it is not and never was exclusive to the Justice league, and why should those of us that don't really like Justice League books not get to see this theme explored?

[Prof. Warren]

I suspect Aaron wants to lean into the idea of the Avengers as deities so this is supposed to be a whacky Mount Olympus. A cave system inside a mountain is not quite the same as a mountainous, iced up, huge Celestial corpse at the top of the world. Like I said before this feels quite cartoon like. I think that is deliberate.

I don't know about "deities", per se, but I definitely feel that Aaron is leaning into a grander vision for the Avengers.

"Cartoon like" would be one way to describe it but I think it's simply Aaron embracing the larger than life, comic book-y possibilities of a team that's labeled as "Earth's Mightiest Heroes."

Residing in a mansion on Fifth Avenue is all well and good but living in a dead Celestial at the top of the world just feels...bigger.

[JKtheMac]

I don't know about "deities", per se, but I definitely feel that Aaron is leaning into a grander vision for the Avengers.

I have yet to hear him suggest or confirm it, but his treatment of 'Legacy' over time feels inspired by Wicdiv to me. But as I see Wicdiv as a superhero book with deity themed heroes then I am not implying Captain America is a god as such, more 'godlike'.

Aaron is clearly providing a mythological underpinning of his heroes, but with a more secular style and with different interpretations available. So for example Loki's insistence that the superheroes are a cosmic accident is questioned and left open, and may just be a consequence of the way Loki sees things, making the question subjective.

I think Issue #5 has been widely misinterpreted as suggesting humanity is a result of the First Celestial, when I believe Aaron was suggesting superheroes were the result. That at the dawn of life on Earth evolution was "altered" to use the word Loki did. He is not suggesting life on the MU was kicked off by this event, but that it is one of the differences between our own world and the MU. The difference that sees it inhabited by Superheroes.

And the apparent conflict between Superheroes and Supervillains is a continual playing out of a heavenly war. Repeated over and over. An epic that spans the aeons like Paradise Lost.

[Prof. Warren]

I have yet to hear him suggest or confirm it, but his treatment of 'Legacy' over time feels inspired by Wicdiv to me. But as I see Wicdiv as a superhero book with deity themed heroes then I am not implying Captain America is a god as such, more 'godlike'.

Aaron is clearly providing a mythological underpinning of his heroes, but with a more secular style and with different interpretations available. So for example Loki's insistence that the superheroes are a cosmic accident is questioned and left open, and may just be a consequence of the way Loki sees things, making the question subjective.

I think Issue #5 has been widely misinterpreted as suggesting humanity is a result of the First Celestial, when I believe Aaron was suggesting superheroes were the result. That at the dawn of life on Earth evolution was "altered" to use the word Loki did. He is not suggesting life on the MU was kicked off by this event, but that it is one of the differences between our own world and the MU. The difference that sees it inhabited by Superheroes.

Yes, I think that's correct. He's not saying that life itself was a result of the First Celestial but that it created Earth's unique abundance of superpowered beings.

[JKtheMac]

Yes, I think that's correct. He's not saying that life itself was a result of the First Celestial but that it created Earth's unique abundance of superpowered beings.

That feels more like mythology to me. I immediately think of archangels or the six divine sparks of Ahura Mazda. A small circle of divine beings who oversee the fight against evil.

[kilderkin]

Liked

Much nicer artwork, I could actually tell what was going on

Cap and robbie interaction, robbie continues to hold my interest

Seeing dr strange doing some doctoring

Panther as the chair

disliked

This version of She-Hulk, I just can't in be interested in a dumb she hulk

Tony's comments to carol, it comes across as wholly inappropriate imo and not something he would do, I don't like this addition to his character at all

No idea why Thor would be remotely bashful about him and jen, at all, for any reason

Another huzzah from another issue of Thor being more written like Hercules of old and looking like he's never been around huge fortifications before in spit of being an ancient god of asgard, Aaron can't write him for toffee imo

Think I'll be dropping buying this for a good while, thor and jen just irritate me under this writer to the detrement of my enjoyment of the book

[kilderkin]

But surely you don't see anything wrong with Aunt May quips? From my perspective, that was also supposed to feel creepy from Peter's perspective, and the joke relies upon that, so that's an odd example. Thor is supposed to feel uncomfortable here too. Its thematically linked to Jen leaning into her situation and embracing it. She isn't embarrassed that while she Hulked-out she kissed Thor. Thor is not sure how to handle it in the cold light of day. Humour springs from that. It seems to be paced fine to me. I got it and I smiled and I moved on. Job done.

It is not like Aaron is new to using humour in his comics. What is true that his more humorous takes on characters are divisive. Wolverine and the X-men being a classic example of a much loved and yet much derided series. Not everyone will enjoy it but so be it. Many of us will.

If people are looking for a super serious comic this isn't the one to read. If people want a serious Thor or a Jen that wouldn't flirt in order to make Thor uncomfortable then look elsewhere. Those of us that think the USP of Marvel has always been to not take things too seriously and to sometimes lean into the silliness, will enjoy it. Personally I love both types of comic and believe they can exist side by side. If I only wanted super serious I wouldn't read Marvel.

P.S. This isn't an example of Bathos if anyone is wondering. It is just playing to the slightly awkward MCU style character of Thor. Like most of those things, not without precedence in the MU.

Just thinking about the usp of marvel

Of the big 2 I think they have always been far more serious

Look at the back ground or key pounts of many of their major characters

spiderman feeling guilt for his inaction linking to the death of ben and his action linking to the death of Gwen
Hulks childhood under his father's abuse and his mental issues
Iron mans and carols alcoholic problems
bens body image issues in some cases leading to suicidal thoughts
All of the xmen parallels to real world bigotry and racist issues
Tony and Bruce's problems being linked to weapon development
peter and flash bullying
reeds guilt of his ambition causing horrific problems for ben
Pym mental health and his relationship with Janet
Luke cage wrongful imprisonment
jessica jones mental torture
Everything thanos and dr doom have ever done

I know what you mean, but I've always seen marvel as much more serious as a mythos

[Rosebunse]

To be fair, Earth in Marvel has long been considered one of the most dangerous planets in the universe. I guess it makes sense that something would do that. And the Celestials have long been considered one of the main culprits.

[JKtheMac]

Just thinking about the usp of marvel

Of the big 2 I think they have always been far more serious

Look at the back ground or key pounts of many of their major characters:

...

I don't mean they don't have serious themes, I mean they lean into the idea that this is not to be taken too seriously. DC is was far more likely over the decades to lean into seriousness and weight. Both publishers have done this at certain times but IMO Marvel have always had a lighter touch. They have their tongue in their cheek more often.