Avengers #8 Review/SPOILERS

[kilderkin]

You know that's how team books work right? The team, including your favourite character take down the bad guys. If you don't count that as a win for your character you may as well stop counting.

Well we were talking about him fighting the hulk, and my comment was in regards to that kind of a win

Again I don't appreciate the tone but ill assume I'm reading it wrong

[kilderkin]

the fact that they even fought them is BS IMO.

Yeah, I actually thought the very idea of that was very poor considering the things celestials can do, resorting to melee seemed a silly response

But it's a silly book in many ways I feel

Which isn't in and of itself bad, but given the opponents I thought it a bit of a disappointment that it even came down to that really

still the uni mind ending was a clever idea, I'm just surprised it worked considering the previous host just dismissed it when the eternals formed one to stand with the destroyer armour

I did like the idea that when galactus and odin fought it was a visual metaphor but I don't think that was the case here

I mean, 2 of them moved multiple planets against thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet

I did think robbie using the armour was clever

[kilderkin]

Exactly. I know we all have different opinions and I understand that it was meant to be funny but it's actually in seriously poor taste to me.

I hadn't even thought of that link with james till now, wow it's even worse to me now

Yucky imo at best

[JKtheMac]

Well we were talking about him fighting the hulk, and my comment was in regards to that kind of a win

Again I don't appreciate the tone but ill assume I'm reading it wrong

Well best to not assume anything. We have no idea what is going on in that issue aside from the fact that Thor seems winded and presumably Cap thinks it is a good idea to get him out of harms way. Let's judge that scene at the appropriate time. I don't know if you are reading Immortal Hulk but it is not a cliched book, so we probably can't assume anything until we get to it. I have read two issues and they were both excellent so I can't imagine I will hate it.

What I can judge is the way some parts of the internet have taken this snippet as a reason to criticise creatives. I see that as both baffling and annoying. It is exactly the same as all the negativity we get when somebody leaks an on-set image for a movie and then uses it as proof positive that the movie will suck. Cynicism ruins the enjoyment of all concerned, but most especially it is a vicious circle and before one knows it everything seems dull and tarnished.

[kilderkin]

Well best to not assume anything. We have no idea what is going on in that issue aside from the fact that Thor seems winded and presumably Cap thinks it is a good idea to get him out of harms way. Let's judge that scene at the appropriate time. I don't know if you are reading Immortal Hulk but it is not a cliched book, so we probably can't assume anything until we get to it. I have read two issues and they were both excellent so I can't imagine I will hate it.

What I can judge is the way some parts of the internet have taken this snippet as a reason to criticise creatives. I see that as both baffling and annoying. It is exactly the same as all the negativity we get when somebody leaks an on-set image for a movie and then uses it as proof positive that the movie will suck. Cynicism ruins the enjoyment of all concerned, but most especially it is a vicious circle and before one knows it everything seems dull and tarnished.

I accept it's just a few panels, indeed I wonder why those specific ones were released, likely to entice people fir the rest of the fight

I can only comment on what I saw, which I felt made thor look rather feeble in how he needed help in retreating from an enemy he has stood alone against several times

of course they have could have been chosen to be a little misleading in that regard

I don't have a problem with hulk beating thor in a fight, it's gone both ways in the past, I do not like the look if how he needed to retreat the way was shown

Judging only what was seen

of course the book might be different

that's the nature of the beast with trailers, previews, snippets, leaks and so on

they work both ways, it's the nature if the beast

I do think comics have long used deliberate misdirection in their previews, many covers themselves totally mislead the reader deliberately

the industry has long relied on this, nowadays it's a trick that works both ways I suppose, for good and bad

[GOLGO 13]

Issue felt clunky to me. Just didn't flow.

[JKtheMac]

I can only comment on what I saw, which I felt made thor look rather feeble in how he needed help in retreating from an enemy he has stood alone against several times

A tiny snippet of an unreleased story which has been drawn with clear talent and sensitivity by an artist that has been knocking it out of the park, and written by a writer that is gathering high praise from critics, is somehow used to pour scorn upon Marvel! How does that work? How can anyone look at those panels, consider the context of the comic they are due to be in, and come away with a bad impression?

[Prof. Warren]

A tiny snippet of an unreleased story which has been drawn with clear talent and sensitivity by an artist that has been knocking it out of the park, and written by a writer that is gathering high praise from critics, is somehow used to pour scorn upon Marvel! How does that work? How can anyone look at those panels, consider the context of the comic they are due to be in, and come away with a bad impression?

There are a lot of things that some comics fans say that you wouldn't think any sensible person would.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Looks like the battle has already begun. Lol. People are choosing up sides. That's actually healthy for the comic when people are getting this intensely involved in a story before it's even released. My money is still on the Hulk. He may lose this fight but it won't be because he was outpunched. The Avengers are going to have to figure out a less physical way. This is the Immortal Hulk. The biggest baddest wrecking machine Marvel has right now. Good luck Avengers because you are going to need it.��

[kilderkin]

A tiny snippet of an unreleased story which has been drawn with clear talent and sensitivity by an artist that has been knocking it out of the park, and written by a writer that is gathering high praise from critics, is somehow used to pour scorn upon Marvel! How does that work? How can anyone look at those panels, consider the context of the comic they are due to be in, and come away with a bad impression?

Like I said, I took the impression they gave me, by the logic provided I should feel neither like or dislike, interest or ambivalence, by such logic I shouldn't have any view from previews, teasers or anything else like that, in which case what's the point of them?

I didn't say it looked bad, I said I didn't remember when thor had a good win - in the context or a fight

You might disagree about that point, that's fine

But I will, as will anyone, draw conclusion and opinions based on what I see

They might change when I see more, I'm ok with doing that, that's what happens to conclusions and opinions isn't it? If it isn't it should be imo

I see thor looking distressed and needing cap to get him out of there, against an opponent he has fought on his own many times going both ways, not even as a team

I don't really like that

Is that coz I'm a fan of Thor

Bang on I am, unashamedly

I am of hulk too

[JKtheMac]

@kilderkin

I feel like the two of us keep having this discussion. Either you are not particularly bothered by my point or you don't understand where I am coming from. In a nutshell it is fine and useful to express your opinion but it is far more meaningful and self expressive to do so with reflection. It is also far less cynical.

By challenging you I am not denying your feelings. I am challenging the way you use your feelings to make points that from my perspective can't be supported by the facts. You may think logic has no place in emotion, but unless you apply some logic to your own emotional responses then your argument is entirely circular.

What has this got to do with Avengers 1-8? Why are you unsatisfied with Thor's contribution? Why do you discount the win he was a part of? What is it about this book and your response to this book that leaves you feeling dissatisfied? Because from my perspective all you have said so far is 'I don't like it for reasons" and used something totally unrelated to this book as some kind of proof.

BTW those panels are not a preview. They are an artist giving us a glimpse of his process nothing more.

[kilderkin]

@kilderkin

I feel like the two of us keep having this discussion. Either you are not particularly bothered by my point or you don't understand where I am coming from. In a nutshell it is fine and useful to express your opinion but it is far more meaningful and self expressive to do so with reflection. It is also far less cynical.

By challenging you I am not denying your feelings. I am challenging the way you use your feelings to make points that from my perspective can't be supported by the facts. You may think logic has no place in emotion, but unless you apply some logic to your own emotional responses then your argument is entirely circular.

What has this got to do with Avengers 1-8? Why are you unsatisfied with Thor's contribution? Why do you discount the win he was a part of? What is it about this book and your response to this book that leaves you feeling dissatisfied? Because from my perspective all you have said so far is 'I don't like it for reasons" and used something totally unrelated to this book as some kind of proof.

BTW those panels are not a preview. They are an artist giving us a glimpse of his process nothing more.

I think for the most part with this current run, when I have discussed an issue I have summarised what I did and also did not like as 2 distinct parts, at least in my initial impressions

I have disliked how thor has been written, mostly in the way I feel he's been more like Hercules of old, the consistent use of huzzahing as an example, his bashfulness in the recent issue with jen another

I've also been consistent in my liking of the use of robbie and cap generally and the election of panther as the leader is a good choice

I am not denying thor has been involved in the win over the celestials, but that was not the kind win I was referring to, I did mean a melee, if I was unclear there I clarify now, of course there are other types of win

I was commenting on the snippet we were given and that I think showing thor scurrying away was not to my liking when it's against an enemy he has stood against before

Yes it's only a snippet, yes that's not a lot to go on

But it is what was chosen to be shown, so I'll judge what I have so far

Could I change my opinion, when I see the issue

Sure

Do I still think that generally thor hasn't had too many real victories recently, yep, and by that I mean as actual fights

I also think he's been written as a bit of a buffoon for a while now, even in the recent issue of thor Wolverine sort of suggests he's making it worse for Midgard

As for formulating opinion and logic, we've seen much discussion about judging comics as an art form, so whilst I accept that I might make judgements based on my emotional response, I am absolutely ok with that given that art forms cause that in people all the time

It's not an academic study for me, this isn't me forming a great thesis

Might I change how I feel from a snippet or preview to a full issue, yes

That's not a bad thing, but I don't choose the snippets or previews, so I'll just have to roll with that

In many ways it makes no sense to me when people suggest we should not formulate a view based on any form of teaser until seeing the full issue, that's what they release them for, they just hope that we form good ones

have the things I've seen about thor been imo fairly negative, yep, I can't pretend otherwise

like I said, I'll judge what i see based on how I feel about it, this isn't anything deeper than that for me

If I saw a great big splash of Thor knocking out the abomination after a great fight, or a snippet showing him doing so, my opinion would be different

imo thor has gone from being a warrior who could stand against almost any opponent and have a good chance of winning (cosmic beings aside) to looking pretty feeble too often

sure this is a team book, but I did say this was an opponent he had faced on his own several times

There might be a reason explaining the snippet, I'll reassess when I see more

I'm perfectly ok with judging what I have so far and then changing my mind

Getting more back onto avengers directly and leaving that prior discussion from now on

I think it's been ok, I do think the first arc was rushed to a conclusion and the ending came on all of a sudden

That said I like the idea of the celestials leaving the corpse armour as a monument

not at all happy with Tony and carols interactions, maybe it's not meant to be serious from tony, but his behaviour like that in the real world would imo be out of order and I see no cause to think it's funny just coz it's fiction

I think cap and robbie did some good moments and I like panther being in the chair

I'm interested to see who takes the new spot of the roster, I won't particular enjoy it if it's namor but I don't think it will be

I would like it if thor got written more seriously, and I have no idea why he's remotely bashful about his feelings for jen

I'm keen to see the battle with namor who I think works well as an antagonist so long as he has a good justification for his kicking off

I am much happier with the last issues art

On the note about cynicism - I have to accept that I am generally cynical to marvel these days, but I do feel there earned that themselves

I don't feel that about dc, IDW, valiant, image or boom coz I just don't feel they act in the same way to their consumers or lcs

But many would disagree with me and that's not a discussion for this board thread

[protege]

So....
The new headquarters is at the north pole? In the body of a dead celestial? What, avengers mansion is just passe’? And exactly how did robbie get there so fast? Was he driving on ice and water? I’m still not sure how or when robbie gained control of the ghost rider persona. And don’t even get me started on she hulk and whatever’s going on with her. Lastly, namor and his barely there outfit. Whst’s up with that?

[Dreaded Porcupine]

So....
The new headquarters is at the north pole? In the body of a dead celestial? What, avengers mansion is just passe’? And exactly how did robbie get there so fast? Was he driving on ice and water? I’m still not sure how or when robbie gained control of the ghost rider persona. And don’t even get me started on she hulk and whatever’s going on with her. Lastly, namor and his barely there outfit. Whst’s up with that?

Namor is the consolation prize after the Hulk gets done mopping the floor with the Avengers. Namor is more the Avengers speed. All heckling aside this feels like old time Marvel when there were big name characters in big time fights. It's nice to have all out brawls every now and then in between serious plots.

As for the new HQ? X-Factor had "ship." That actually worked out pretty good. X-Men asteroid M in the ocean. Besides NYC must be tired of getting leveled because the Avengers resided there and were big time targets. The Avengers will eventually come full circle and end up back in the mansion.

[kilderkin]

Namor is the consolation prize after the Hulk gets done mopping the floor with the Avengers. Namor is more the Avengers speed. All heckling aside this feels like old time Marvel when there were big name characters in big time fights. It's nice to have all out brawls every now and then in between serious plots.

As for the new HQ? X-Factor had "ship." That actually worked out pretty good. X-Men asteroid M in the ocean. Besides NYC must be tired of getting leveled because the Avengers resided there and were big time targets. The Avengers will eventually come full circle and end up back in the mansion.

I think it makes for a nice change, visually I love it and it does give me a JLA tower vibe which I thought worked well

It's location at the north pole or thereabouts iirc gives them an international feel as well which I don't think hurts