Where is Roberto da Costa in the Uncanny relaunch?

[Dante Milton]

So yeah pointing out that in 2018 Marvel seems more afraid of showcasing racial minorities than they did back in the 80s seems fair to me. But you're saying once again we should just wait and see, and hope for the best without criticizing them to do better.

Agree with your post, but something I see brought up a lot that is a bit irksome is that people seem to give the 80s X-books much more credit than they deserve in regards to the representation of characters of color.

Uncanny was basically just Storm with some occasional appearances from Sunfire and Stevie Hunter, neither were a permanent fixture. Jubilee didn't show up until '89.

New Mutants was the best of the three, but Karma got pretty immediately sidelined and never really stuck around long, leaving just Dani and Sunspot for most of the 80s. There were more white blonde haired blue eyed characters than there were characters of color.

X-Factor had Rictor, and some small appearances from Opal and Charlotte Jones.

Excalibur was all white.

The X-books didn't really start doing a somewhat better job until the 90s, and even then it could be better. It could still be better, not only in terms of characters but creators as well.

[skyvolt2000]

So yeah pointing out that in 2018 Marvel seems more afraid of showcasing racial minorities than they did back in the 80s seems fair to me. But you're saying once again we should just wait and see, and hope for the best without criticizing them to do better.

Well look at the backlash they got when they tried.
It did not matter if it was Legacy (Khan) or new (Mosaic) or original (Luke Cage) the line to throw FITS was there behind Inhumans.

Now it looks like they are pandering to those complaints. And we are seeing the excuse showcase once again. Here and at DC.
It's not that they don't want to showcase minorities, it's they want to showcase CERTAIN ones.

Black Panther, America, Moon Girl, Ms Marvel, Cage, Miles, X-23, Nadia & Runaways kids-are immune because of tv shows, movies & trade sales. Falcon is a gray area especially with Patriot in Marvel Rising. Same with Monica due to Cap Marvel film. Riri, Sam, Midnight Angels, Doras, Flint & Cho are there too.

Then you get Storm, Blue Marvel, Prodigy & Sunspot. ALL of whom have had roles in books beyond cameos. Sunspot had stories built around him in Avengers. You have folks picking up that US Avengers trades and reading about HIM. Then you have Storm in Black Panther. Prodigy in America. They are in TRADES that MANY will read & buy.

Then you look at DC who acts like the black population is only Cyborg. We won't discuss John Stewart. Nor Duke Thomas-whose Batman & Signal mini was well received and the trade is doing WELL on Amazon. Duke FYI is DC's highest selling black lead book for Amazon. Then you have Vixen & Bumblebee. New Superman was well received and he's done. Has anyone SEEN Jaime Reyes?

It gets to a point of the POC folks WANT to support or have tried to support-are the ones who can't get it.

There is HONESTLY no excuse for Storm not getting anything after the Panther run.
If we take New Mutants-we talk SUNSPOT. Especially if he has been a lead in a book. You build UP on that. I don't care if you use Sunspot for a charity book for Hurricane victims. He needs to be around.

I don't care how much backlash Marvel has gotten-you don't back down.
Because LION FORGE (among others) are NOT playing with POC lead books.

[Killerbee911]

Bishop, Storm, Jubilee and Armor are the only POCs that seem like they are going to have any significant role in this Uncanny X-Men Disassembled event.
Compare that to Jean, Psylocke, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Beast, Cannonball, Northstar, X-23, Pixie, Rockslide, Glob Herman, Madrox, Legion, the all white Four Horsemen of Salvation, and Nate Grey the Shaman who are all going to have significant roles.
That's not a great ratio.

It's not complaining that our favorites aren't being used, it's pointing out a pattern that the X-Books have been following for a long time now.


So yeah pointing out that in 2018 Marvel seems more afraid of showcasing racial minorities than they did back in the 80s seems fair to me. But you're saying once again we should just wait and see, and hope for the best without criticizing them to do better.

While your post makes some good points,You are doing a lot of speculating and each cycle of relaunch we should at least the give the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to do it right. Now you have made a lot of great points of to why we will probably see more of the same and X-force line up is perfect example but it is way too early to make so strong of complains. Let us see what Uncanny roster of after Disassmbled looks like,Let us see what the other X-men roster look like first. Your post isn't probably wrong but it is early. I rather be factual in my complaints and complaining about Sunspot not getting used is early ,Saying that Bishop, Storm, Jubilee and Armor are the only POC getting major roles is early. Lets see the rosters,Let see how the story plays out for example Jean,Storm and Armor are said to be the leaders. If we compare that to right now Kitty, Jean and Havok are the leaders so we have an improvement in that front already and given the nature of X-men leaders the role isn't just significant it is major role

I am not saying you are wrong I am saying you are early

[Beetle]

Agree with your post, but something I see brought up a lot that is a bit irksome is that people seem to give the 80s X-books much more credit than they deserve in regards to the representation of characters of color.

Uncanny was basically just Storm with some occasional appearances from Sunfire and Stevie Hunter, neither were a permanent fixture. Jubilee didn't show up until '89.

New Mutants was the best of the three, but Karma got pretty immediately sidelined and never really stuck around long, leaving just Dani and Sunspot for most of the 80s. There were more white blonde haired blue eyed characters than there were characters of color.

X-Factor had Rictor, and some small appearances from Opal and Charlotte Jones.

Excalibur was all white.

The X-books didn't really start doing a somewhat better job until the 90s, and even then it could be better. It could still be better, not only in terms of characters but creators as well.

You are completely, unfortunately and hilariously right. I probably shouldn't have stated it that way, the 80s did not have more racial diversity.

I just meant that for the time it was groundbreaking, but we can't apply those same standards to today's landscape. Which seems to be the problem, these nostalgia fueled lineups are using the same rosters from back in the day and aren't adjusting for more diversity because "it was good enough for back then". Or worse the writers and editors don't even realize how homogenous the line ups are until readers point it out to them.

But it's not good enough for today, it does not reflect our world and we should not accept less.

While your post makes some good points,You are doing a lot of speculating and each cycle of relaunch we should at least the give the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to do it right. Now you have made a lot of great points of to why we will probably see more of the same and X-force line up is perfect example but it is way too early to make so strong of complains. Let us see what Uncanny roster of after Disassmbled looks like,Let us see what the other X-men roster look like first. Your post isn't probably wrong but it is early. I rather be factual in my complaints and complaining about Sunspot not getting used is early ,Saying that Bishop, Storm, Jubilee and Armor are the only POC getting major roles is early. Lets see the rosters,Let see how the story plays out for example Jean,Storm and Armor are said to be the leaders. If we compare that to right now Kitty, Jean and Havok are the leaders so we have an improvement in that front already and given the nature of X-men leaders the role isn't just significant it is major role

I am not saying you are wrong I am saying you are early

Not that much speculating really. Thompson straight up told us that those 4 would be the only POC X-men to get significant roles in Uncanny X-Men Disassembled.


Everyone else I mentioned has either been on subsequent covers or preview images.

Wait and See isn't really much of a response, because when are we supposed to stop waiting? We've already waited through Lemire's Extraordinary, through Gold and Blue, through Astonishing and New Mutants.
How much longer are we supposed to wait before letting our voices be heard?
"Wait until the post event roster is shown" becomes "wait until that first arc after the event is finished" and before you know it another year will have gone by and a new creative team will come on and nothing will have changed.

[jalsrix]

X-Factor had Rictor, and some small appearances from Opal and Charlotte Jones.

.

I repeat Rictor has Spanish ancestry of Mexican nationality so he is white and not native Mexican.

Rictor has brown hair and brown eyes as recorded in Marvel profile of him.

Not everyone in Mexico are mixed just like not everyone in USA are mixed native American and European.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico#Ethnicity_and_race

estimations for the percentage of European-descended Mexicans within the Mexican population vary considerably: their numbers range from around 10%–20% according to the Encyclopædia Britannica[268] to as high as 47%.

The European-descended Mexican are the majority and not the minority just like European-descended Americans.

[Killerbee911]

Wait and See isn't really much of a response, because when are we supposed to stop waiting? We've already waited through Lemire's Extraordinary, through Gold and Blue, through Astonishing and New Mutants.
How much longer are we supposed to wait before letting our voices be heard?
"Wait until the post event roster is shown" becomes "wait until that first arc after the event is finished" and before you know it another year will have gone by and a new creative team will come on and nothing will have changed.

Wait what I think you are going on tangent when I am being practical.When you should complain for this example this thread is about Sunspot when the books are release and he actual does have a role complain. When solicits reveal the rosters are bad complain when event starts complain. I understand your point once again but it slight too early. 4 POC have significant role? How many have a minor role? What does a significant role even mean? Did Kelly Thompson forgot anyone? She also said Women represented prominently what about LGBTQ ? What about handicap? Does the X-men alone have to carry the full weight of comics lack of diversity would we be having a convo about diversity if every franchise was a diverse as the X-men? I am not saying the X-men can't do better and I have complain and will complain about this problem but I am saying you have actually wait to make sure it is an issue but apparently we going to have to agree to disagree if we have enough info on the current line to complain.

I view Disassemble as reboot of the line and the current line is

Xmen Gold
X-men Blue
X-men Red
Astonishing X-men
Weapon X


Weapon X isn't all that diverse and X-force which I think is replacing it is just as bad so it is not a good start . So lets get to meat of me saying waiting whatever book replaces Xmen Blue, Gold and Astonishing xmen will be more diverse it is almost impossible to be less diverse than what they have put out literally Storm and Warpath save a bunch of books from all white in 2018. X-men Red is going to be a loss that book had Trinary, Gentle and Storm was the best balanced X-book. The point we can't make good comparison because we have no real information. Remember this is a thread about Sunspot ,he could be in Uncanny X-men line up or another xmen book after the event, He could be a in New mutants book(the will finish the dead souls storyline).The point is wait until we have more information than vague covers and previews. Lets at least wait on line ups.

[ChronoRogue]

Wait what I think you are going on tangent when I am being practical.When you should complain for this example this thread is about Sunspot when the books are release and he actual does have a role complain. When solicits reveal the rosters are bad complain when event starts complain. I understand your point once again but it slight too early. 4 POC have significant role? How many have a minor role? What does a significant role even mean? Did Kelly Thompson forgot anyone? She also said Women represented prominently what about LGBTQ ? What about handicap? Does the X-men alone have to carry the full weight of comics lack of diversity would we be having a convo about diversity if every franchise was a diverse as the X-men? I am not saying the X-men can't do better and I have complain and will complain about this problem but I am saying you have actually wait to make sure it is an issue but apparently we going to have to agree to disagree if we have enough info on the current line to complain.

The problem is they are taking a long time. The X-books have been in stasis for what has felt since last year, after IvX.

There's been no solid direction, no real sign of where the franchise is going, and a slew of books that have been both derivative (Blue starring clones of characters that are alive and being used) and not very racially diverse. It doesn't help when every team announcement we've been getting are bad on the diversity front (Astonishing X-Men and the New X-Force).

As for the X-Men being responsible for being diverse? Actually yes, they should be a forerunner on racial diversity for Marvel. For one, they blatantly built some of it's core metaphors and themes on civil rights movements and draw parallels to real world life events toward racial discrimination and prejudice. Everyone's heard of the Malcolm and Lurthur comparisons for Xavier and Magneto. Secondly, unlike some home grown based heroes or teams, the X-Men were built to be an international team (see ANAD). So even if America in general is still majority Caucasian, the Xavier school is open to everyone around the world.

And no writer has saw fit to fill a gap or alternative school, so I don't think there are any real big mutant communities outside the X-Men for international mutants to turn toward. They should have a huge influx of diverse students and members and have them featured outside of the same Nightcrawler (German), Colossus (Russian), etc... where really Indian and Chinese mutants would be more common then they are.

We should totally call writers out on this, as there is little excuse. That the Avengers were better than the X-Men at showcasing diversity for the past couple of years is kinda actually embarrassing considering the metaphor.

[Steroid]

I was pretty bummed that Sunspot did not make the lineup for X-Force but with how far he has come i can only hope that means he has graduated to the Uncanny roster. Otherwise just give him back to the Avengers office because no matter how anyone may try to spin it, Being part of a New Mutants relaunch or whatever is like 50 steps backwards for my favorite character.

[yogaflame]

It kinda is amazing how developed he became in the Avengers line. Honestly, anything other than financing and leading an X-team would be a step down for him at this point. And power-level wise he's advanced so far. I'd love to see him make a team of some of the New Mutants and Gen X eras, with maybe one older X-Men(like Angel), and play on the global stage, coordinating with the main team (Storm, Jean, et al).

[Alphaxman]

How I feel about Sunspot and any role he'd have in the X-line will always come off as back-sliding. He really came into his own over in Avengers and he should be treated as a major player in the Marvel Universe. He's rich, his powers has expanded during the No Surrender storyline, he was treated as being nearly as strong as Hercules who is in the top tier "strongmen". With Warren flying aimlessly between his "normal" and Archangel personas and Emma playing the "Villain" role again, the X-Men needs a financial backer, plus, doesn't he have A.I.M. scientists on his pay-roll and a whole island at his disposal? Maybe the f@&king school can get away from the damn park where any and everyone was able to get in and kill those no-name students. Stupid Kitty Pryde and her failed leadership!

Hell... even Karma has a major multinational conglomerate under her control, making Warren and Emma 90's dinosaurs. Just thinking about how Kitty ran the school and handle the team really shows the flaw in how the X-Men are operated. There are too many X-Men in powerful positions letting the next generation of mutants down. A school full of young people who are among the most hated in society should not be unsecured in an open park in one of the largest cities in the world.

But the X-Office will never let him lead the team or have any kind of major impact. The team's direction will always be lead by Scott, Xavier, Logan, Jean, Storm or now Kitty of all people, so the second stringers will never rise up as important members of the X-Men.

[yogaflame]

I'd love to see Ororo, Bishop, Roberto, Dani, Shan, Monet(who I would love to see date Roberto), and Sage lead the team into the next millennium, but you're right, the X-office is spinning wheels.

[Beetle]

The problem is they are taking a long time. The X-books have been in stasis for what has felt since last year, after IvX.

There's been no solid direction, no real sign of where the franchise is going, and a slew of books that have been both derivative (Blue starring clones of characters that are alive and being used) and not very racially diverse. It doesn't help when every team announcement we've been getting are bad on the diversity front (Astonishing X-Men and the New X-Force).

As for the X-Men being responsible for being diverse? Actually yes, they should be a forerunner on racial diversity for Marvel. For one, they blatantly built some of it's core metaphors and themes on civil rights movements and draw parallels to real world life events toward racial discrimination and prejudice. Everyone's heard of the Malcolm and Lurthur comparisons for Xavier and Magneto. Secondly, unlike some home grown based heroes or teams, the X-Men were built to be an international team (see ANAD). So even if America in general is still majority Caucasian, the Xavier school is open to everyone around the world.

And no writer has saw fit to fill a gap or alternative school, so I don't think there are any real big mutant communities outside the X-Men for international mutants to turn toward. They should have a huge influx of diverse students and members and have them featured outside of the same Nightcrawler (German), Colossus (Russian), etc... where really Indian and Chinese mutants would be more common then they are.

We should totally call writers out on this, as there is little excuse. That the Avengers were better than the X-Men at showcasing diversity for the past couple of years is kinda actually embarrassing considering the metaphor.

This is a great post and addresses everything I wanted to say. Thank you.

Wait what I think you are going on tangent when I am being practical.When you should complain for this example this thread is about Sunspot when the books are release and he actual does have a role complain. When solicits reveal the rosters are bad complain when event starts complain. I understand your point once again but it slight too early.

You started this conversation. You accused anyone who was unhappy about Sunspot's demotion, backsliding, absence and general irrelevance within the X-men as simply complaining because "our faves aren't being used". The situation is a lot more complex than that, and I simply provided context and pointed out a pattern which this falls into.
I said it about Brisson and I'll say to you, cutting down our arguments to "they're never satisfied because their favorite obscure character isn't being used" is a reductive tactic designed to shut us down without really thinking about why we're asking.

The writers have so many options at their disposal but keep choosing to focus on the same characters over and over in an obvious attempt to recreate Claremont's heights.
Why keep using Colossus as a team bruiser when Sunspot, Frenzy, and Monet can also fill that role?
Why use Old Man Logan in so many books when Daken is an option?
Why have both nuPyro and Magma on the same team, and only use Magma's fire powers? Why not just use Sunfire at that point?
Why is Beast the default super genius in every book when Prodigy literally knows everything he does and more?
Why not use Dani or Karma as team illusionist or psychic?

4 POC have significant role? How many have a minor role? What does a significant role even mean? Did Kelly Thompson forgot anyone? She also said Women represented prominently what about LGBTQ ? What about handicap? Does the X-men alone have to carry the full weight of comics lack of diversity would we be having a convo about diversity if every franchise was a diverse as the X-men? I am not saying the X-men can't do better and I have complain and will complain about this problem but I am saying you have actually wait to make sure it is an issue but apparently we going to have to agree to disagree if we have enough info on the current line to complain.

First of all, giving white women prominent representation isn't all that progressive. It's kinda par for the course with the X-Books (Kitty, Rachel, Rogue, Psylocke, Dazzler, Jean, teen Jean, Emma, etc...).
Giving women approximately 50% of the focus should be the baseline, literally the least you can do.
And telling the racial minorities to wait our turn, to wait until after the white women have already gotten theirs is peak white feminism. And it's something we've been told a thousand times before.

I acknowledged that LGBTQ+ and Jewish have had some decent representation in the books in my initial post. But that does not change the fact that from a racial standpoint it's been a slow trog. Like nandes said in the fourth post of this thread, the X-Books can't seem to give a major push to more than one black woman and one black man at any one time.
Also speaking of disability representation, you just me reminded that artists have routinely forgotten to draw Hellion's prosthetic arms consistently, sometimes he's drawn with regular hands. And I don't think Karma's prosthetic leg was even shown in the New Mutants Dead Souls mini. So yeah the X-Books can do better on that front too.

And hoping that more POCs get minor roles? So that they can stand in the chorus line, or in group shots, not doing anything significant but supporting the main characters who are mostly white? That's what we should accept as "good enough"?

I'm not even going to address the rest of that paragraph because ChronoRogue answered it better than I could.

Weapon X isn't all that diverse and X-force which I think is replacing it is just as bad so it is not a good start .

2 out 5 of the initial line up were Warpath and Lady Deathstrike. That's 40%, better than most of the other books. Early arcs also gave a great deal of prominence to guest star Amadeus Cho. And the current arc is guest starring Monet. Is it perfect? God no. But you have to admit that Pak has at least tried.

So lets get to meat of me saying waiting whatever book replaces Xmen Blue, Gold and Astonishing xmen will be more diverse it is almost impossible to be less diverse than what they have put out literally Storm and Warpath save a bunch of books from all white in 2018. X-men Red is going to be a loss that book had Trinary, Gentle and Storm was the best balanced X-book. The point we can't make good comparison because we have no real information. Remember this is a thread about Sunspot ,he could be in Uncanny X-men line up or another xmen book after the event, He could be a in New mutants book(the will finish the dead souls storyline).The point is wait until we have more information than vague covers and previews. Lets at least wait on line ups.

We know what the transition for the 10 part arc looks like. We've seen Rosenberg's past team lineups. And we've seen Brisson's new team for X-Force.
I feel like that's enough to make an educated guess.

Can they improve? God I hope so. But waiting to be disappointed again before calling them out just feels like being complicit.

[sallyblevins]

Kelly Thompson liked a tweet of mine about how I was looking forward to what they are doing with Magma and Sunspot!

Wow! Thanks! I'm really interested too. These two need great roles now

[mugiwara]

I'd love Roberto to have an important role in X-Men, but I'm afraid him or the other New Mutants will never be part of the leading cast.
At best, him or Moonstar or Cannonball may be allowed to lead an independant/rebel team or an affiliated team that would still have to answear to the likes of Storm or Cyclops.
But never an official major X-Men team. Nope. That would be over Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine, Cyclops, etc's dead bodies.

[Silver Fang]

2 out 5 of the initial line up were Warpath and Lady Deathstrike. That's 40%, better than most of the other books. Early arcs also gave a great deal of prominence to guest star Amadeus Cho. And the current arc is guest starring Monet. Is it perfect? God no. But you have to admit that Pak has at least tried.

I thought about that myself. But, I discount Monet in Weapon X, given how often she was white in the last chapter. lol
RCO007.jpg
RCO012.jpg
RCO014.jpg
We're back to flip-flopping with her race when he had been black in all of Bunn's work, and Strain's GenX. Now we're back to the white-washing.