Mary Walker: Typhoid Mary Appreciation

[darewithpeace]

So good character, hot and dangerous

[Mike_Murdock]

I was surprised there was not a thread. I thought about starting one a long time ago when I read the Nocenti miniseries "Typhoid." Unfortunately, Typhoid Mary is a tricky character to get right and I'm not sure anyone has truly succeeded since Nocenti stopped writing the character. But I'm looking forward to the mini coming up to see what they do.

I also thought the Netflix version was an intriguing attempt. It was far more an attempt at a realistic portrayal of Dissociative Identity Disorder than the comics character, but there were some nice references that worked well and she certainly kicked ass.

[Huntsman Spider]

I was surprised there was not a thread. I thought about starting one a long time ago when I read the Nocenti miniseries "Typhoid." Unfortunately, Typhoid Mary is a tricky character to get right and I'm not sure anyone has truly succeeded since Nocenti stopped writing the character. But I'm looking forward to the mini coming up to see what they do.

I also thought the Netflix version was an intriguing attempt. It was far more an attempt at a realistic portrayal of Dissociative Identity Disorder than the comics character, but there were some nice references that worked well and she certainly kicked ass.

I'm looking forward to the Typhoid Fever mini, too, especially since apparently the first hero to fight her will be Spider-Man. In fact, that was how I was first exposed to Typhoid Mary --- her appearance in Spectacular Spider-Man #213-214 as the main villain, written by Ann Nocenti. As for how tricky it is to get her right, I think that's because a lot of the themes Nocenti wove into her character are frankly more complex than a lot of comic writers are comfortable and/or skilled with, though given how things have changed in terms of social awareness and activism around those themes, Typhoid Fever might be due for a resurgence.

[Mike_Murdock]

Speaking of Typhoid Fever. Does anyone know if the main covers connect? Best I can tell, the main Spider-Man cover has Colossus's elbow in the cover, but the main X-Men cover doesn't continue. But the "Sandoval Connecting Variant" seems different than the Spider-Man cover I was talking about.

[Shadowcat]

I suggest anyone interested in the character to pick up the Typhoid’s Kiss tpb, which collected her ongoing chapters from Marvel Comics Presents, where we get interweaving stories that star Typhoid, Wolverine, Danny Ketch’s Ghost Rider, and Daredevil. Most of the chapters were illustrated by Steve Lightle at the top of his 90’s game. Absolutely amazing stuff.

[Shadowcat]

I’ve currently begun collecting all of Nocenti’s work, both in and out of conics, as she’s become a beacon and idol for me. She really encapsulates what kind of creator I want to become, and hope to one day create a character as complex as Typhoid is.

[Mike_Murdock]

I found Lightle's art to be relatively incomprehensible, unfortunately. I'll have to go back and think about it again. I remember not knowing what was happening in one of the stories, but I can't remember which one. I think it was #123 that I was confused by. #150 is an interesting story because, iirc, it has the first transgender character in comics. I was a big fan of the Typhoid mini-series as well. When Iron Fist Season 2 came out, I commented that there were some parallels to that story - particularly in the idea of Mary leaving notes to her alternate personalities and her acting as a detective.

I'll have to find where I wrote a previous post about that book. It must have been in the Daredevil thread. I noted that Nocenti often reused the theme of government experimentation (#238, #247, etc.). In those previous issues, it was explicitly the same shady government organization. Likewise, Typhoid Mary was experimented on as a child. I wondered if there was an intent to make the stories more connected. At the time, there was a rumor that Mary would appear in Jessica Jones (which I still think would have been a great fit) and I was thinking the Netflix show should have explicitly tied Mary's powers to that of Jessica.

[Shadowcat]

Ahhh, yes, the Ghost Rider story. I’ve had in depth conversations with both creators regarding that story, and Ann’s notes to Steve was literally to go “Bat **** crazy with the art”, as it was meant to be a peak inside of Mary’s fractured psyche. Ann’s a bit of a conspiracy laden type of personality, which is interesting, because when you talk to her about it, she makes it sound so believable. Plus Marvel had a whole cache of secret nefarious government programs running at this time, thanks to Barry Windsor-Smith’s Weapon X.

I also thought Mary would have been a better antagonist in JJ season 2, and tying their origins together, or that of Kilgrave’s with that of Mary’s. I think they did a great disservice to the character by not exploring more facets of her complex makeup, but understand that it’s for a 13 episode series, and they can only do so much with someone who isn’t the main series star. I hope this isn’t the last we’ll see her on the Netflix shows.

[Mike_Murdock]

Has anyone read the Typhoid Fever: Spider-Man story? I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. I do like the feminist themes that are present, however lightly. On the other stand, it was a very weird story. There's a mutant character that explains everything but it also means that things are very different from Mary's normal powers.

[Huntsman Spider]

Has anyone read the Typhoid Fever: Spider-Man story? I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. I do like the feminist themes that are present, however lightly. On the other stand, it was a very weird story. There's a mutant character that explains everything but it also means that things are very different from Mary's normal powers.

I have. I thought it was interesting. I also liked the themes present about narratives, especially from a feminist perspective taking into account and calling out how women are forced into a narrow spectrum of roles that marginalizes them and denies them their full humanity/personhood and agency. I just didn't like how this was mixed in with the story of a ruthless villain determined to twist the world around her to fit her vision and desires, ironically no better than those she (or the story) was condemning.

Then again, that might well be the point, in the sense of "those who fight monsters." It's no big secret that Mary has been victimized her whole life, and no big surprise that her alter egos represent her desire to protect herself from ever being a victim again or even to strike back against those that would victimize her or others like her. The problem is that she ends up creating her own victims in the process, and as much as she wants to tell herself that they all "had it coming," that isn't necessarily the case all the time. As such, her disregard for the suffering she causes while trying to avenge herself ultimately makes her the villain of the story, even if one agrees with her overall points.

[Mike_Murdock]

Typhoid Fever: X-Men was interesting. I think this issue got Mary's voice better. There's also an exploration of her past. Her continuity isn't really consistent and I don't think this story necessarily makes it any better because it's deliberately confusing, but there's a clear homage to her going out a window (Daredevil/Deadpool Annual or Man Without Fear) on top of the exploration of the manifestation of her powers when she was young.

[Hypestyle]

so what brought on this new revival of the character?

[Ichijinijisanji]

so what brought on this new revival of the character?

iron fist tv show probs

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I wish it to be possible to have the MCU Typhoid Mary make her cinematic debut in the MCU Shang-Chi movie post MCU Phase 3.

[Mike_Murdock]

Are you thinking of tying her to Shang-Chi because she was with another martial arts character recently because it's worth pointing out that Iron Fist is in the MCU.