View Poll Results: Which New Gods do you prefer?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Jack Kirby's versions

    22 70.97%
  • The New 52 versions

    0 0%
  • I think they're both fine

    9 29.03%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    8,635

    Default Does anyone want the New 52 version of the Fourth World to continue?

    While I liked some of what Azzarello & Chiang did with Orion in their Wonder Woman run, I thought the entire New 52 revamp of Kirby's Fourth World stuff was so utterly wrong-headed that I couldn't honestly understand what DC was trying to do. Even Geoff Johns' otherwise stellar work with these versions in Darkseid War made the bone-headed decision to have Highfather & Darkseid exchange sons when Scott & Orion are both old enough to understand what was happening to them, which seems to completely miss the point of Orion & Scott's entire character arcs. I also thought the idea of Highfather as morally bankrupt warrior king only slightly better Darkseid was similarly pointless.

    However, perhaps I am missing something here. Are there any fans of the New 52 NuGods out there who can explain to me why DC shouldn't simply forget about them in favor of what Kirby established? Anyone?

  2. #2
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Man, that is a whole can of worms.

    The Rucka run that kicked off "Rebirth" made it look like Highfather and Orion could just be a mental fast one that was put over on Diana.

  3. #3
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    1,543

    Default

    How about Stantons vesion?

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,748

    Default

    I'll admit I've never enjoyed any New Gods stories ever. I've long considered Darkseid to be the only redeemable character of the bunch.... but even i'll admit the Nu52 is the worst of the bunch :P

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Appleton, WI
    Posts
    6,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Man, that is a whole can of worms.

    The Rucka run that kicked off "Rebirth" made it look like Highfather and Orion could just be a mental fast one that was put over on Diana.

    And I will be forever thankful to Rucka for that.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    For the most part, I didn't really like the New 52 New Gods. I did quite like the revamped Forever People, both in character and book, and thought that Azarello's Orion was pretty good. The decision to have a slightly corrupted Highfather rubbed me the wrong way at first, but I can see what they were doing. It's not like Kirby's New Genesis didn't have its dark side- see the outright racism and ghetto-ization of the Bugs as well as Highfather's arms race pre-Pact. It works as a sort of 'the brighter the light the darker the shadow' thing.

    Plus, if you apply Morrison's idea of refraction- that all New Gods stories are the true, Platonic Ideal of the New Gods refracted through the reality in question- the New 52 New Gods work just as well as the New Gods in Superman: The Dark Side or Kingdom Come or what have you. Just another aspect of characters larger than a singular aspect.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,935

    Default

    So by Kirby’s version, do you just mean the versions from before the New 52? If so, then definitely the Kirby versions. The New 52 New Gods (just like the rest of the New 52) are abominations.

  8. #8
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    8,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    So by Kirby’s version, do you just mean the versions from before the New 52? If so, then definitely the Kirby versions. The New 52 New Gods (just like the rest of the New 52) are abominations.
    Yes, the versions prior to the New 52 are the Kirby versions because those Fourth World characters, while often at odds with what Kirby had done, at least retained the original stories created by Jack Kirby in the 1970s.

  9. #9
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    8,635

    Default

    Geez, still not a single vote for the New 52 versions. That says it all right there...

  10. #10
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,047

    Default

    I liked some of the redesigns (particularly the ones Fabok did) but the Kirby versions definitely did (and still do) have more meat to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    While I liked some of what Azzarello & Chiang did with Orion in their Wonder Woman run, I thought the entire New 52 revamp of Kirby's Fourth World stuff was so utterly wrong-headed that I couldn't honestly understand what DC was trying to do. Even Geoff Johns' otherwise stellar work with these versions in Darkseid War made the bone-headed decision to have Highfather & Darkseid exchange sons when Scott & Orion are both old enough to understand what was happening to them, which seems to completely miss the point of Orion & Scott's entire character arcs. I also thought the idea of Highfather as morally bankrupt warrior king only slightly better Darkseid was similarly pointless.
    I actually liked that because I felt it added a new wrinkle to their characters and who they ended up being without really changing their character arcs that much.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,725

    Default

    I preferred the pre-FP New Gods. That said, I wouldn't have minded seeing the new versions grow, but its rather moot now. Everything else is pre-FP, it wouldn't really make sense to use the New 52 versions within that framework now.

    No one knows how to use the New Gods though regardless of the continuity. I'm not even saying that in the fact that they don't stand up to Kirby's work. That's not my bar, its too high. My bar is just using them in good stories and that rarely happens.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-24-2018 at 10:48 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  12. #12
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    8,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I liked some of the redesigns (particularly the ones Fabok did) but the Kirby versions definitely did (and still do) have more meat to them.

    I actually liked that because I felt it added a new wrinkle to their characters and who they ended up being without really changing their character arcs that much.
    How does that not completely change Scott & Orion's character arc? Who we are is largely determined by our upbringing before the age of 5 years old. If both Scott & Orion are older than that when the exchange happens, it completely changes the dynamic of what they both went through with their new parents.

    It's the difference between Bruce Wayne witnessing his parents' murder when he's a boy and witnessing them when he's an adult. It's the difference between Luke Skywalker finding out his father is Dark Vader when he's a boy on Tatooine and him finding out on that tower in Cloud City.

    It makes a huge difference.

  13. #13
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,769

    Default

    I prefer Jack Kirby's version(s) but to each his or her own.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #14
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,047

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    How does that not completely change Scott & Orion's character arc? Who we are is largely determined by our upbringing before the age of 5 years old. If both Scott & Orion are older than that when the exchange happens, it completely changes the dynamic of what they both went through with their new parents.

    It's the difference between Bruce Wayne witnessing his parents' murder when he's a boy and witnessing them when he's an adult. It's the difference between Luke Skywalker finding out his father is Dark Vader when he's a boy on Tatooine and him finding out on that tower in Cloud City.

    It makes a huge difference.
    Did it really change their character arc?

    Scott Free is still the kid who was sent to live and grow up in a Hellish landscape under Darkseid, fell in love with Big Barda, and against all odds escaped Apokolips and returned to become a hero of New Genesis despite what had happened to him.

    Orion is still the son of Darkseid who grew up to become Highfather's loyal son while still having to contend with the blood of Darkseid that flows within him.

    Making them old enough to be aware of what happened to them just added a new wrinkle to the switch and their growing up, while still being at an impressionable enough age to where the switch would have an impact on their upbringing. But that's just my take on it.

  15. #15
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    8,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Making them old enough to be aware of what happened to them just added a new wrinkle to the switch and their growing up, while still being at an impressionable enough age to where the switch would have an impact on their upbringing. But that's just my take on it.
    We'll have to agree to disagree here. I've worked with kids for decades now and, trust me, there's a huge difference in when the exchange happens. Scott Free's journey, in particular, is a whole other animal if he was old enough to know what life on New Genesis was like before being thrown to the wolves to be raised by Granny Goodness. That completely changes the math on who Scott Free is. Orion is the same deal.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •