How do you prefer the Green Goblin?

[Mistah K88]

About Harry, it felt more personal toward Peter than Norman did I'd say. Even Peter never truly bringing Norman to justice was because of his feeling toward Harry. However I'd say that Harry had redemptive qualities even when he was dressing up in his dad's duds. Despite his animosity toward Peter, he never was evil in the way Norman was. I don't think Harry was ever a killer in the same way Norman was.

Norman's original goal was basically to have the ability to be out on the field to get his hands dirty and become a blue collared criminal (while he was already a white collared criminal), just turning his eye to targeting Spider-Man for revenge. Funnily enough Norman actually succeeded in his original goal of being a crime boss in the Spectacular animated series for a good week or so. Though I do wonder why Norman became an Avenger's level threat when something like world domination is normally Otto's forte.

[phantom1592]

About Harry, it felt more personal toward Peter than Norman did I'd say. Even Peter never truly bringing Norman to justice was because of his feeling toward Harry. However I'd say that Harry had redemptive qualities even when he was dressing up in his dad's duds. Despite his animosity toward Peter, he never was evil in the way Norman was. I don't think Harry was ever a killer in the same way Norman was.

Norman's original goal was basically to have the ability to be out on the field to get his hands dirty and become a blue collared criminal (while he was already a white collared criminal), just turning his eye to targeting Spider-Man for revenge. Funnily enough Norman actually succeeded in his original goal of being a crime boss in the Spectacular animated series for a good week or so. Though I do wonder why Norman became an Avenger's level threat when something like world domination is normally Otto's forte.

Frankly this is why I don't think Harry worked as well as a villain. he was always rather... pathetic. He was terrified of everything.. he would lash out at his kid and wife... but you never REALLY felt like he was a threat to Peter and MJ or Aunt May. He may threaten them... but then get reminded they're friends... and then wimp out and go to therapy. He had more motivation, but he was really weak.

Then came the hobgoblins and Demogoblins and The psychiatrist and phil Urich… and the goblin brand became so watered down.

When they brought back Norman... I remembered how epic he was. This was the Spider-man's #1 enemy. The one who actually KNEW his identity and was a loose cannon that actually COULD kill his family and DID kill his girlfriend..

There's something terrifying about a villain who knows all your secret life... Venom took that spot in the 90's, but Norman was the first to learn his identitiy and beat him down outside Aunt May's house in his civilian identity... Harry? There was the question of whetehr he'd blab to the world... but I never once thought he'd actually HURT MJ or May... He just didn't have that violent nature.

[Carabas]

There's something terrifying about a villain who knows all your secret life... Venom took that spot in the 90's, but Norman was the first to learn his identitiy and beat him down outside Aunt May's house in his civilian identity... Harry? There was the question of whetehr he'd blab to the world... but I never once thought he'd actually HURT MJ or May... He just didn't have that violent nature.

This is where the infinitely ongoing nature of comics backfires, because that kind of villain is not tenable to keep around for decades without becoming severely toned down.

[Alan2099]

Harry was always a better character than Norman. Yes he could be pathetic, but his swings from pathetic to outright monster were made all the more emotional and unexpected because of that.

Norman in general.... he's a weird character. I'm not talking about having a rich guy dress up in a costume to commit crimes. That's just standard for comics. I'm talking about how he was written and his place in the mythos. Norman didn't used to be the number one villain. He wasn't even a strong number 2. He was just a standard Spider-man badguy with nothing to really make him standout more than Vulture, Electro, or Mysterio.

Then he killed Gwen and died in the same story.

Then Green Goblin's legacy along with the emotional trauma he'd caused Peter and Harry hung around for years, essentially building him up to a credibility and villain status that he never actually earned while he was alive.

Then there was the period when he came back and was behind everything that happened. He also got a completely new personality at this point. Not only was he made into some master schemer and manipulator, but he was said to have always been one when he obviously wasn't. It's just the pure amount of stuff writers let him get away with became tiring at times. He was pushed into stories he had no business being in and walked away scott free time and time again all because he was "Spider-man's Number 1 enemy" a status that he never actually earned.

...
oh and I like him in a costume throwing pumpkins from a glider.
Big Beefy Hulk-Goblin has always looked stupid no matter how they tried to do it.

[Celgress]

I prefer the original version or something heavily inspired by it.

[phantom1592]

Harry was always a better character than Norman. Yes he could be pathetic, but his swings from pathetic to outright monster were made all the more emotional and unexpected because of that.

Norman in general.... he's a weird character. I'm not talking about having a rich guy dress up in a costume to commit crimes. That's just standard for comics. I'm talking about how he was written and his place in the mythos. Norman didn't used to be the number one villain. He wasn't even a strong number 2. He was just a standard Spider-man badguy with nothing to really make him standout more than Vulture, Electro, or Mysterio.

Then he killed Gwen and died in the same story.

To each their own, but I would disagree. Being the only villain to know who Peter was... coupled with the fact that it tore Pete up between stopping Goblin and hurting his Friend... every time Norman showed up it was a much bigger deal than Elecro or Vulture. I agree Killing Gwen and Dying cemented his place in history and Spider-man Lore... but He was pretty big deal even before that. The only other contender I can think of would be Doc Ock… especially for giving Pete his first real Loss, but that lack of threat to Spider-man AND PETER Parker kind of held him back.

Post his death, I'd say it was Venom and Doc Ock (especially when he started hanging around Aunt May... :P)

[Celgress]

To each their own, but I would disagree. Being the only villain to know who Peter was... coupled with the fact that it tore Pete up between stopping Goblin and hurting his Friend... every time Norman showed up it was a much bigger deal than Elecro or Vulture. I agree Killing Gwen and Dying cemented his place in history and Spider-man Lore... but He was pretty big deal even before that. The only other contender I can think of would be Doc Ock… especially for giving Pete his first real Loss, but that lack of threat to Spider-man AND PETER Parker kind of held him back.

Post his death, I'd say it was Venom and Doc Ock (especially when he started hanging around Aunt May... :P)

I couldn't agree with you more on both points.

[Frontier]

To each their own, but I would disagree. Being the only villain to know who Peter was... coupled with the fact that it tore Pete up between stopping Goblin and hurting his Friend... every time Norman showed up it was a much bigger deal than Elecro or Vulture. I agree Killing Gwen and Dying cemented his place in history and Spider-man Lore... but He was pretty big deal even before that. The only other contender I can think of would be Doc Ock… especially for giving Pete his first real Loss, but that lack of threat to Spider-man AND PETER Parker kind of held him back.

Post his death, I'd say it was Venom and Doc Ock (especially when he started hanging around Aunt May... :P)

The Green Goblin was also the first villain who continually managed to elude Spider-Man.

I mean, Doc Ock beat him soundly, but Spidey still managed to beat and catch him a few times. Up until the reveal of Norman the Green Goblin kept eluding capture and escalating as a threat while his obsession with killing Spider-Man started to grow.

He was also the first real, developing, "mystery villain" compared to the Big Man who was revealed in a much shorter period of time.

[Hypestyle]

Do you prefer him as more of a tech based villain or something along the lines of the ultimate Goblin where he's a hulking monster? Also, do you believe the Goblin formula should trigger any physical mutations other than enhancing his stats?

Well at this point, who knows. I wouldn't mind if 616 Norman mutated into a green, pointy eared form, however, the Hulk-sized proportions I have a problem with. I'd still want him to have his gadgets and glider. If he had some kind of rocket harness on his back, that would be fine, too.

[Huntsman Spider]

About Harry, it felt more personal toward Peter than Norman did I'd say. Even Peter never truly bringing Norman to justice was because of his feeling toward Harry. However I'd say that Harry had redemptive qualities even when he was dressing up in his dad's duds. Despite his animosity toward Peter, he never was evil in the way Norman was. I don't think Harry was ever a killer in the same way Norman was.

Norman's original goal was basically to have the ability to be out on the field to get his hands dirty and become a blue collared criminal (while he was already a white collared criminal), just turning his eye to targeting Spider-Man for revenge. Funnily enough Norman actually succeeded in his original goal of being a crime boss in the Spectacular animated series for a good week or so. Though I do wonder why Norman became an Avenger's level threat when something like world domination is normally Otto's forte.

World domination may be more Otto's thing than Norman's, but Norman already has a leg up on him in terms of being a "legitimate businessman" with wealth and connections in both the corporate and criminal worlds that he can exploit to gain more power. It's just that while he knew who Spider-Man was, all of his schemes and machinations centered around causing Peter Parker as much misery as he could manage. Without that, he was free to turn his demented brainpower in other directions that could actually advance and increase his own power base instead of "wasting it" on his grudge against Spider-Man. I kind of liked seeing him turned loose on the entire superhero community and having them experience firsthand what the web-slinger had been enduring all those years.

[Reilly]

I prefer him as tech based psychopath. His Ultimate version always was "meh" for me. I'm hoping that when he is going to appear in the MCU, he is going to be tech based psychopath, travelling on a glider and throwing pumpkin bombs while laughing like a maniac.

[Mistah K88]

Funny thing about the Green Goblin when it came to disagreements between Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. I've heard that Stan wanted him to be more of a mythological baddie, while Steve wanted to keep him technology based. Then when it came to identity Stan wanted it to be someone Peter knew personally while Steve wanted it to be some joe schmoe that Peter wouldn't know. It is funny how both had one of their main ideas to the forefront. I wonder if Ultimate's rendition of the Green Goblin was based off of that...funnily enough, Norman's main major follow up Hobgoblin didn't personally know Peter (after Stern corrected the reveal of Ned).

Now when it comes to Norman, I will say that before his death, his legacy (Hobgoblin, Harry) was more stand out than Norman himself ever was.

[Carabas]

Funny thing about the Green Goblin when it came to disagreements between Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. I've heard that Stan wanted him to be more of a mythological baddie, while Steve wanted to keep him technology based. Then when it came to identity Stan wanted it to be someone Peter knew personally while Steve wanted it to be some joe schmoe that Peter wouldn't know. It is funny how both had one of their main ideas to the forefront. I wonder if Ultimate's rendition of the Green Goblin was based off of that...funnily enough, Norman's main major follow up Hobgoblin didn't personally know Peter (after Stern corrected the reveal of Ned).

Ultimate Green Goblin is still 100% technology-based. Just more biochemistry than aeronautical engineering and bombs.

[Frontier]

Ultimate Green Goblin is still 100% technology-based. Just more biochemistry than aeronautical engineering and bombs.

It's just a different form of a Sci-Fi villain, eschewing tech for mutation.

Although the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon tried to fuse them both together, funnily enough .

[Scott Taylor]

Ultimate Green Goblin is still 100% technology-based. Just more biochemistry than aeronautical engineering and bombs.

Exactly, thank you. Ultimate Goblin and the entire Ultimate Universe was more tech-based than the 616, with everything stemming from experimental tech from either various industrialists or SHIELD.

Personally I'm a little tired of both of them.