Magic vs Science: Which One Do You Root For In A Story?

[Moon Ronin]

There have been a number of stories pitting science against magic. In those stories which one do you root for?

I hope you're right.

They are defiantly speaking of fiction and not "real world magic"

Science and magic are tools that allow people to understand and change the world around them, neither is better than the other all that matters is how they are used.

And I'm pretty sure they are too, it's like the Last Jedi... not a fan... but there is not light or dark there is just a force and, a way to track people through hyper space...

[DrNewGod]

Good points. In fiction science is usually science. the same science we have just more advanced or using a fictional theory for the sake of the story.

But magic can be something wielded without any understanding. "Say these words and this happens". "Use this Talisman and you can do this" The person doesn't have to know where the power comes from. And often the author doesn't explain the forces behind the magic. Sometimes this lack of knowledge even leads to serious consequences.

IMO, that's bad world building. One of the things I admire about The Harry Dresden novels is their attention to the idea that magic is a refined art, almost a science of its own (Dragonlance had some of that too). The Wheel of Time had a sort of balance to that, in the idea that affinity for The One Power was an inborn trait, but it required training and discipline to truly master (unless you happened to be a reincarnation).

[Kirby101]

IMO, that's bad world building. One of the things I admire about The Harry Dresden novels is their attention to the idea that magic is a refined art, almost a science of its own (Dragonlance had some of that too). The Wheel of Time had a sort of balance to that, in the idea that affinity for The One Power was an inborn trait, but it required training and discipline to truly master (unless you happened to be a reincarnation).

Tell that to J K Rowlings.

[norj]

They are defiantly speaking of fiction and not "real world magic"



And I'm pretty sure they are too, it's like the Last Jedi... not a fan... but there is not light or dark there is just a force and, a way to track people through hyper space...

That hyperspace thing was so dumb, in legends rebels always dropped out early and did a second jump in a new direction, but apparently everyone in Disney Wars is a complete idiot.

[Carabas]

That hyperspace thing was so dumb, in legends rebels always dropped out early and did a second jump in a new direction, but apparently everyone in Disney Wars is a complete idiot.

It's new technology developed 30+ ears after Return Of The Jedi. And it comes with drawbacks and limitations. How is it dumb?

Also, non-Legends old Star Wars characters were apparently idiots as well because they never did that double-jumping in the old films.

[norj]

It's new technology developed 30+ ears after Return Of The Jedi. And it comes with drawbacks and limitations. How is it dumb?

Also, non-Legends old Star Wars characters were apparently idiots as well because they never did that double-jumping in the old films.

Vader needed to place a tracker on the Millennium Falcon in A New Hope because it was such an old trick, and in The Empire Strikes Back the rebel fleet all jumped in random directions so that the Empire couldn't follow them to the rally point, plus in Disney canon Tarkin developed the hyperspace tracking tech that was used in the Last Jedi, there is no way the resistance could have not known about it.

[BroHomo]

Almost always Magik!!!
lol

[Carabas]

Vader needed to place a tracker on the Millennium Falcon in A New Hope because it was such an old trick...

Yeah, but that's not advanced technology. This is doing it without placing a tracker somewhere. That's not at all tracking a ship through Hyperspace. That's just following a homing beacon.

...and in The Empire Strikes Back the rebel fleet all jumped in random directions so that the Empire couldn't follow them to the rally point...

No such thing is stated in the movie.

...plus in Disney canon Tarkin developed the hyperspace tracking tech that was used in the Last Jedi, there is no way the resistance could have not known about it.

Not quite... a think tank called the Tarkin Initiative developed the theoretical science behind it, but they never managed to make it actually work.
It was the First Order, Hux specifically, who cracked the tech.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace_tracker

[_Feely_]

They're both the same thing.

They only look different depending on your perspective.

[Carabas]

They're both the same thing.

They only look different depending on your perspective.

Well, in some settings they're more or less the same thing (Magic: The Ascension for instance) and in others they're not even remotely related.

[Valerie]

It's new technology developed 30+ ears after Return Of The Jedi. And it comes with drawbacks and limitations. How is it dumb?

Also, non-Legends old Star Wars characters were apparently idiots as well because they never did that double-jumping in the old films.

Hyperspace tracking was being developed by the old Empire, too. Remember that Jyn and Cassian came across a file on hyperspace tracking while looking for the Death Star plans. Of course, said file was destroyed, and they died with that knowledge....

[Valerie]

I disagree with that big-time.

In the real world, science is real and magic isn't. Furthermore, people believing in magic costs and ruins lives. It allows 'clairvoyants' to rip off vulnerable people, faith healers to convince people to not seek actual medicine. People even get sacrificed or murdered as 'witches' from time to time.

I like magic well enough in the context of a story, but treating it as equal to science in real life can be dangerous.

Science by itself enabled the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and enabled holding the world hostage for decades with the threat of nuclear annihilation. Science is no different than magic in one critical respect - it's only as good as the people using it.

[Kirby101]

Science by itself enabled the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and enabled holding the world hostage for decades with the threat of nuclear annihilation. Science is no different than magic in one critical respect - it's only as good as the people using it.

Science and technology are related, but not the same thing.

[Valerie]

Science and technology are related, but not the same thing.

Nevertheless, the point remains. Science and technology as well as magic are only as good as the people using it. Take the development of gunpowder. It can kill people or save people's lives. Splitting the atom has destroyed whole cities, but it also powers whole nations. How we've come upon a lot of medical knowledge involved unspeakable cruelty to unconsenting human test subjects.

Knowledge, science, and technology are all pretty neat, but neutral. It's how we obtain and use that knowledge that makes it good or bad. And in that respect, it's morally no different than magic.

[Carabas]

Hyperspace tracking was being developed by the old Empire, too. Remember that Jyn and Cassian came across a file on hyperspace tracking while looking for the Death Star plans. Of course, said file was destroyed, and they died with that knowledge....

You obviously didn't click on the link.

The old Empire didn't have anything other than that file because they couldn't turn the theory into actual working tech. We have actual real life files on many scientific advances we can't quite actually do yet.

And it obviously wasn't the only copy of the file, considering the First Order continued the research.