Man of Steel is not better than Superman Returns

[DochaDocha]

That makes me wonder why would they approve this story.

I almost get the feeling that WB was anxious to get the movie out, and they already spent a ton of money, so they were willing to go with whatever stupid idea that came from Singer, whom they committed time and resources to.

But if you were to believe Kevin Smith, maybe the guys at WB were full of stupid ideas themselves.

[stargazer01]

That makes me wonder why would they approve this story. What exactly made them think it was a good idea to separate Superman and Lois or portray Superman as a parent out of wedlock? An attempt to modernize the franchise, an interesting new story to explore or just an attempt to be funny? Why would they do something they knew would potentially decrease their customer base?

I don't know, I guess the WB execs can be really ignorant and stupid when it comes to these DC characters. If it wasn't for Donner, Nolan, Jenkins, Burton, and now James Wan who all had interesting story ideas and visions that really worked with fans and audiences in their time, the DC characters would be doomed in mediocrity and controverse..

I almost get the feeling that WB was anxious to get the movie out, and they already spent a ton of money, so they were willing to go with whatever stupid idea that came from Singer, whom they committed time and resources to.

But if you were to believe Kevin Smith, maybe the guys at WB were full of stupid ideas themselves.

They probably thought that since Singer's other DC movies worked, his ideas for Superman would work as well. They didn't stop to think if this story really made sense and was exciting enough. Maybe they hoped the film ended up being more exciting to fans than what Singer made. Seriously, I feel that Singer wasn't much of a fan of the character whole mythos, just a big fan of Donner's Superman. SR was basically a love letter and homage to it. At least Snyder and Nolan came up with a whole new story that I think was still flawed but more ambitious and more visually impressive in execution.

[Jabare]

Superman Returns has one of the weakest superhero plots of all time

[thetrellan]

I almost get the feeling that WB was anxious to get the movie out, and they already spent a ton of money, so they were willing to go with whatever stupid idea that came from Singer, whom they committed time and resources to.

But if you were to believe Kevin Smith, maybe the guys at WB were full of stupid ideas themselves.

Considering the way they handled Superman, I assume they fell into the trap of looking for a success formula.

It's not possible to find such a thing writing wise. What's entertaining today is old news tomorrow. The best thing is a combination of factors that work, sure. But in the end makers just need the latitude and agency to do their job right. Don't to pay too close attention to what the competition is up to, or let factors like merchandising concerns get in the way of telling a good story. I love the MCU stuff, but it's not perfect. I think a great JLA film is something the world can always use. But it shouldn't be jumped into just because the Avengers sold well. It would be far better to use the Arrowverse as a model than the MCU. I've seen fans online accuse me of wanting the DC movies to be like Marvel, but that's not true. I don't really know what I want. Knowing that is the surest way to disappointment. But the DCEU was still disappointing, and so far it's not overall what I'm looking for.

That doesn't mean it won't in the future. WW was good. SS not as good, but better than the Superman related offerings. I didn't care for Croc's look, but El Diablo was pretty awesome. It looked like he died, so disappointing. But then I hadn't been reading his comics, and only knew what the movie told me. I hope they make another Suicide Squad film soon. Hopefully one with less of an impending apocalypse feel, or least one more subtle.

At any rate, like it or not, the DCEU as is makes for a foundation. If they can stop trying too hard, it could really grow into something great. I just hope WB doesn't get discouraged and give up on the idea.

[HeroVladimir93]

Considering the way they handled Superman, I assume they fell into the trap of looking for a success formula.

It's not possible to find such a thing writing wise. What's entertaining today is old news tomorrow. The best thing is a combination of factors that work, sure. But in the end makers just need the latitude and agency to do their job right. Don't to pay too close attention to what the competition is up to, or let factors like merchandising concerns get in the way of telling a good story. I love the MCU stuff, but it's not perfect. I think a great JLA film is something the world can always use. But it shouldn't be jumped into just because the Avengers sold well. It would be far better to use the Arrowverse as a model than the MCU. I've seen fans online accuse me of wanting the DC movies to be like Marvel, but that's not true. I don't really know what I want. Knowing that is the surest way to disappointment. But the DCEU was still disappointing, and so far it's not overall what I'm looking for.

That doesn't mean it won't in the future. WW was good. SS not as good, but better than the Superman related offerings. I didn't care for Croc's look, but El Diablo was pretty awesome. It looked like he died, so disappointing. But then I hadn't been reading his comics, and only knew what the movie told me. I hope they make another Suicide Squad film soon. Hopefully one with less of an impending apocalypse feel, or least one more subtle.

At any rate, like it or not, the DCEU as is makes for a foundation. If they can stop trying too hard, it could really grow into something great. I just hope WB doesn't get discouraged and give up on the idea.

Man, reading this just makes me sad about the radio silence Warner and DC have kept regarding Henry Cavill and the future of the Superman movie series.

[thetrellan]

Man, reading this just makes me sad about the radio silence Warner and DC have kept regarding Henry Cavill and the future of the Superman movie series.

Agreed. I thought Cavill made a fine Superman, even though I never liked MS or BS. I figure if they just tweak what they've been doing, something will click and the films will really take off.

[Vordan]

Agreed. I thought Cavill made a fine Superman, even though I never liked MS or BS. I figure if they just tweak what they've been doing, something will click and the films will really take off.

Just needs a good writer and director. Give it an Aquaman budget and set it in space so Cavill can go to town fighting aliens. I'd personally set it on Warworld fighting in Mongul's arenas. People really loved the crazy fantasy setting of Atlantis, doing something like that with Supes is the way forward imo.

In my personal dream world I'd use Metallo and Sam Lane but I think going more crazy is how we get people to check Supes out.

[DochaDocha]

Just needs a good writer and director. Give it an Aquaman budget and set it in space so Cavill can go to town fighting aliens. I'd personally set it on Warworld fighting in Mongul's arenas. People really loved the crazy fantasy setting of Atlantis, doing something like that with Supes is the way forward imo.

In my personal dream world I'd use Metallo and Sam Lane but I think going more crazy is how we get people to check Supes out.

Sadly, it would seem like a Thor Ragnarok ripoff.

They could've done that, but hey, Superman's death wasn't going to film itself...

[Vordan]

Sadly, it would seem like a Thor Ragnarok ripoff.

They could've done that, but hey, Superman's death wasn't going to film itself...

Who cares what idiots on social media say? People called Aquaman "Wet Thor" or "Wet Black Panther" or claimed it was an MCU copy, but that didn't stop it from making a billion. An entertaining movie is an entertaining movie no matter what trolls post. People claim Superman is boring but Death of Superman beat out pretty much every other DCAMU movie in sales. We can't let the idiots online decide everything, otherwise there wouldn't be anything Superman getting made because "he's invincible and boring and nobody likes him".

[thetrellan]

Who cares what idiots on social media say? People called Aquaman "Wet Thor" or "Wet Black Panther" or claimed it was an MCU copy, but that didn't stop it from making a billion. An entertaining movie is an entertaining movie no matter what trolls post. People claim Superman is boring but Death of Superman beat out pretty much every other DCAMU movie in sales. We can't let the idiots online decide everything, otherwise there wouldn't be anything Superman getting made because "he's invincible and boring and nobody likes him".

No one is paying attention to what we think anyway. Not that I mind should they decide to keep abreast of it. I just don't think it should affect direction any more than I want merchandising to. Keep the damn sponsors out of the kitchen, I say. They always shy away from the kind of creativity they think is risky, but don't have clue one what makes the characters work. And you're right. Avoiding looking like a ripoff affects story direction as surely as intentionally ripping off. Do what Stephen King does. Shut yourself away until the job is done.

But again, not like I really want them doing what I say either. It's a vicious circle, this logic.

I think one of the things that made Superman the Movie so impressive is that it demonstrated that Superman really had a lot going for him and didn't have to be boring, at a time when he very much was in the comics. Anyone saying he is hasn't learned that lesson. Calling people with different opinions "idiots" and "trolls" isn't a great argument, though. As far as that goes, everyone is an idiot, myself included, at some time or another. I'll have a hard time seeing it if you use red flag words to put me on the defensive.

[stargazer01]

Just needs a good writer and director. Give it an Aquaman budget and set it in space so Cavill can go to town fighting aliens. I'd personally set it on Warworld fighting in Mongul's arenas. People really loved the crazy fantasy setting of Atlantis, doing something like that with Supes is the way forward imo.

In my personal dream world I'd use Metallo and Sam Lane but I think going more crazy is how we get people to check Supes out.

I agree with everything you said on this page. It's time to go wild and more imaginative with a Superman movie. I suggested the same idea on twitter. A want more cosmic Superman. I haven't seen Ragnarok.. but maybe someone important on Earth gets kidnapped, and Superman has to go to outer space to rescue that person and he ends up at Warworld and without powers and he has to fight to get out, etc. I was just reading wikipedia and it seems Mongul kidnapped Lois, Jimmy and Lombard in some story lol.

[Photon Torme]

The Man of Steel is not better than banging your foot on the refrigerator during a violent coughing fit.

[thetrellan]

The Man of Steel is not better than banging your foot on the refrigerator during a violent coughing fit.

Nothing but pain, phlegm, and a flashing bright light.

[DCStu]

Apples and oranges.

I like Superman Returns cause it was a nice nostalgic reminder of the old Christoper Reeve days.

I enjoyed Man Of Steel cause it reminded me of Byrne's post crisis run, Birthright and Superman For All Seasons.

Both movies give me different things - so I'm happy with both of them for different reasons.

[stargazer01]

Apples and oranges.

I like Superman Returns cause it was a nice nostalgic reminder of the old Christoper Reeve days.

I enjoyed Man Of Steel cause it reminded me of Byrne's post crisis run, Birthright and Superman For All Seasons.

Both movies give me different things - so I'm happy with both of them for different reasons.

Great answer. Despite its flaws, I really like Superman Returns for what it is. It felt like a good ending to the Reeve Superman. A bittersweet ending because Clark lost Lois but he found a son. Not bad.

And Man of Steel is a better movie for me, and I love those modern VFX and the story and ambition, oh and the cast. I just wish some little things were a bit different like Pa Kent's story.