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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Put me down in the "neither" camp. Both are incredibly flawed versions of Superman. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Returns because of nostalgia and at least he didn't kill anybody. But that's a low bar. I don't consider Returns to be part of the Donner-verse. It's a stand alone thing and that's fine. Supposedly if Returns had gotten a sequel, we'd have gotten Brainiac as the main villain so I'm sorry that didn't happen but supposedly that's what we would have gotten with the sequel to MOS too.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  2. #17
    Master Hero Vladimir
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    I don't hate Superman Returns, I just think it was average, run-of-the-mill and overall unremarkable. I actually enjoyed Brandon Routh's performance. He is a good actor struggling against comparisons to Christopher Reeve (who has set a pretty high bar in regards to Superman performances), questionable writing (Superman conceives a child with Lois Lane and leaves Earth for 5 years) and indecisive directing (the movie couldn't make up it's mind whether it was a continuation of the first 2 Christopher Reeve films or a reboot).
    Last edited by HeroVladimir93; 09-21-2018 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Grammar check.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Put me down in the "neither" camp. Both are incredibly flawed versions of Superman. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Returns because of nostalgia and at least he didn't kill anybody. But that's a low bar. I don't consider Returns to be part of the Donner-verse. It's a stand alone thing and that's fine. Supposedly if Returns had gotten a sequel, we'd have gotten Brainiac as the main villain so I'm sorry that didn't happen but supposedly that's what we would have gotten with the sequel to MOS too.
    Lex's henchmen say hi.

  4. #19
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    The most likeable and sympathetic guy (by far) in all of SUPERMAN RETURNS is Richard White (James Marsden), not Kal-El (Brandon Routh). Richard is a better dad to Jason than Kal-El is. Kal-El is an unwitting deadbeat who never provided for Jason, but Richard did. Richard White never abandoned Lois like Kal-El did.

    Richard White is a much better man than Superman is in Superman's own movie.

    Oh, SUPERMAN RETURNS turned Lois into a liar (unless she was upfront with Richard that Jason is Kal-El's child, which I doubt). So she gets pooped on in this movie as well.

    Oh, and accused pedophiles Bryan Singer AND Kevin Spacey are both highly involved in this dumpster-fire.

    There is plenty to disqualify this "film" from competition among cinematic versions of Superman.

    Seriously, eff this flick.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    SR definitely has his moments, but MOS offers so much more. And many of the flaws in MOS are also in Returns, but weren't as harped on for whatever reason.

    That depressing depowering, waterboarding, and stabbing of Superman in the grayest rainiest most drab backdrop I've ever seen, for one.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Throwing Jonathan Kent under the bus was the only questionable thing for me
    Jonathan in MoS is hardly different from other incarnations.




  7. #22
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    The most likeable and sympathetic guy (by far) in all of SUPERMAN RETURNS is Richard White (James Marsden), not Kal-El (Brandon Routh). Richard is a better dad to Jason than Kal-El is. Kal-El is an unwitting deadbeat who never provided for Jason, but Richard did. Richard White never abandoned Lois like Kal-El did.

    Richard White is a much better man than Superman is in Superman's own movie.

    Oh, SUPERMAN RETURNS turned Lois into a liar (unless she was upfront with Richard that Jason is Kal-El's child, which I doubt). So she gets pooped on in this movie as well.
    I guess it's not so much I think MoS is a better movie than SR, but SR does irritate me a lot more, and mainly for the reasons stated above. And the Super suit... ugh...

  8. #23
    Master Hero Vladimir
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    The DCEU Superman movies are some of my favorite movies of all time, and I do admit Superman Returns could have been done better. Honestly, many characters and ideas in the movie, like Richard and Jason,backed the whole franchise up into a corner, so the only way to save it was to make a whole reboot. Superman Returns couldn't make up its mind whether it wanted to be its own thing or continue where the Christopher Reeve movies left off and the final product suffered from that indecision. Also, I do admit the suit in this movie looked great.

  9. #24
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    The most likeable and sympathetic guy (by far) in all of SUPERMAN RETURNS is Richard White (James Marsden), not Kal-El (Brandon Routh). Richard is a better dad to Jason than Kal-El is. Kal-El is an unwitting deadbeat who never provided for Jason, but Richard did. Richard White never abandoned Lois like Kal-El did.

    Richard White is a much better man than Superman is in Superman's own movie.

    Oh, SUPERMAN RETURNS turned Lois into a liar (unless she was upfront with Richard that Jason is Kal-El's child, which I doubt). So she gets pooped on in this movie as well.

    Oh, and accused pedophiles Bryan Singer AND Kevin Spacey are both highly involved in this dumpster-fire.

    There is plenty to disqualify this "film" from competition among cinematic versions of Superman.

    Seriously, eff this flick.
    Don't forget, Richard White SAVES Superman on his sea plane after Lex's ship sinks.

    Richard White is an all around better dude in the film than Superman, who is supposed to be "returning".
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  10. #25
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Jonathan in MoS is hardly different from other incarnations.



    Quoted for truth, rather than because it particularly has anything to do with what I'm about to say. I just think it's important to draw those comparisons between all those versions of Jon Kent. He's really pretty consistent for the most part.

    I don't honestly have a whole lot to say about this thread. I've been avoiding it because of that. I don't think Superman Returns completely lacks redeeming qualities; it's much better than its reputation suggests at any rate. Routh got robbed by a mediocre script but still gives a really interesting performance as Clark Kent in particular, and the action scenes are really pretty damn great given the 2006 era CG. At the same time, Superman Returns still basically has no reason to exist given that it's a relationship drama sequel to a 25 year old (at the time) movie, and to suggest that it's better than Man of Steel is frankly, ridiculous.

    And for the record, I basically agree with the claim that Richard White is a better Superman than Superman is in that movie. Poor writing. Clark comes across much better than Kal though.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  11. #26
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Seriously...another veiled "Man of Steel suxs!" thread. It's been 5 years for God's sake and it's safe to say that version is done anyway. Let it go.

    Since you asked though...

    I don't hate either movie. They both have their problems, although as time goes on i like Superman Returns less and less, especially what we know now about Spacey and Singer today. Brandon Routh got a raw deal. The asthetic was nice and it was well shot and designed but overall it gets worse as time goes on.

    Man Of Steel taken on it's own is a much better Superman film and frankly a much better movie. It's not perfect by any means and i think some of the destruction porn in the last half hour could have been dialed back a tad, and it could used a little more color. Also, in retrospect, Superman killing Zod, whilst justified in the script and not as horrible an abomination as some make it out to be, was ultimately a mistake that turned off just enough people that it damaged the prospects for DCEU Superman to gain any traction and be accepted, which is a shame because Cavill is the best actor in that role since Chris Reeve.

    As others have stated if you took the few good things about Returns with the overall great things about MOS and leave the bad stuff of both out you would have one hell of a great Superman movie.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 09-23-2018 at 01:09 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    I like Superman Returns more which isn't saying much.

  13. #28
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Lex's henchmen say hi.
    No they don't - they're dead! LOL!
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
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  14. #29
    Mighty Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Jonathan in MoS is hardly different from other incarnations.



    The only Pa Kent that was cool with Clark having Powers was New 52 Pa, but then he actually had a personality so there's that. I think the Pa disconnect comes from the elevation of Jor-El as a actually Parent who loves his kid and wants what's best for him.

    Before Pa was all Clark had cause they wrote Jor-El as a floating head who just dispenses information like a robot or as an adversary but Crowe even as a construct really gave Clark the love of a parent to his kid.

    If you got parent A pushing their kid to greatness whilst parent B is see as holding him back cause he thinks the child will be hurt you'll probably think less of Parent B but Parent B had the hardest part.

    To me Pa Kent is like the Step Dad that weathered all the Sickness and late nights and bad stuff but real Dad just need to show up to get the love. Pa raised Clark well enough so he could fulfill Jor-El's plans. That says something.

    Lets look at Pa Kent: He worries about His Families Safety first before helping others, he'll let Clark fight his own battles regardless of the consequences, lets his son decide what kind of person he wants to be but believes his Son will change the world one day. Does that sound like the moral monster that people paint him as? Or just a regular human being?

  15. #30
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post

    Oh, SUPERMAN RETURNS turned Lois into a liar (unless she was upfront with Richard that Jason is Kal-El's child, which I doubt). So she gets pooped on in this movie as well.
    If I remember correctly, the novelisation and the Lois Lane prequel comic had Lois and Richard becoming a couple soon after Superman disappeared, and with the gap being tight enough that Jason could be Richard's kid (she also shouts, while in labour, "I can't believe I let you do this to me", at Richard).



    (and I know no one else agrees with me or considers it possible, and regardless of the "son becomes the father" speech, but Jason will always be Richard and Lois' biological son, with his abilities coming from Lois' altered genetic structure because "the lights were on out here while he was safe in there".)

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