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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    If I remember correctly, the novelisation and the Lois Lane prequel comic had Lois and Richard becoming a couple soon after Superman disappeared, and with the gap being tight enough that Jason could be Richard's kid (she also shouts, while in labour, "I can't believe I let you do this to me", at Richard).
    Which also completely screws up the Superman II chronology, if you accepted Returns as a legit sequel (I do not...). So you mean to say that shortly after Supes and Lois' dalliance, Supes all of the sudden discovers remnants of Krypton, Richard shows up, and BOOM! he and Lois start an intimate relationship? All within a matter of days or weeks? Are you effin' kidding me? Who didn't think this through and figured this was a great idea?

  2. #32
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Which also completely screws up the Superman II chronology, if you accepted Returns as a legit sequel (I do not...). So you mean to say that shortly after Supes and Lois' dalliance, Supes all of the sudden discovers remnants of Krypton, Richard shows up, and BOOM! he and Lois start an intimate relationship? All within a matter of days or weeks? Are you effin' kidding me? Who didn't think this through and figured this was a great idea?
    Bryan Singer
    Michael Dougherty
    Dan Harris
    Gilbert Adler
    William Fay
    Stephen Jones
    Chris Lee
    Scott Mednick
    Lorne Orleans
    Jon Peters
    Thomas Tull

    (sure, a few of the above may have only been involved on the finance side of things, but still...)

  3. #33
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    I think it shouldn't be about which movie is better.

    Superman is 80 years old character who had countless versions of himself and there is literally no consistent and definitive version of the character that every single person on Earth would like. Not a single version is flawless. What matters is if a version of Superman gives a person positive emotions and inspiration. He can do that as Superman from Man of Steel, as Superman from Superman Returns, as Superman from Smallville, as Superman from New 52, etc. It all depends on an individual. In the end his core is always the same - he is just a guy trying to do the right thing. But the way how this core is given can vary and each version appeals to different kind of people, because different persons find this core appealing under different kinds of challenges and circumstances that are thrown against Superman to struggle against.

    I think people would've made their lives easier if they accepted the fact that their favorite version of Superman is not universally liked, but were happy for the fact that there is so many Supermen for diffetent people and he keeps being people's superhero through different narratives.

    In the end if you ask people to describe why Superman is their favorite superhero, there will be differences in description, because every person has his or hers own Superman or a combination of different Supermen. What matters is that he is their favorite superhero and as long as he is considered that for people it's all fine then.

    I never understood why there has to be competition instead of unification. Watching people fight or even trashtalk each other over which Superman is the best puts under question if they are his fans at all, because fighting each other is a complete opposite of what Superman stands for.

  4. #34
    Master Hero Vladimir
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think it shouldn't be about which movie is better.

    Superman is 80 years old character who had countless versions of himself and there is literally no consistent and definitive version of the character that every single person on Earth would like. Not a single version is flawless. What matters is if a version of Superman gives a person positive emotions and inspiration. He can do that as Superman from Man of Steel, as Superman from Superman Returns, as Superman from Smallville, as Superman from New 52, etc. It all depends on an individual. In the end his core is always the same - he is just a guy trying to do the right thing. But the way how this core is given can vary and each version appeals to different kind of people, because different persons find this core appealing under different kinds of challenges and circumstances that are thrown against Superman to struggle against.

    I think people would've made their lives easier if they accepted the fact that their favorite version of Superman is not universally liked, but were happy for the fact that there is so many Supermen for diffetent people and he keeps being people's superhero through different narratives.

    In the end if you ask people to describe why Superman is their favorite superhero, there will be differences in description, because every person has his or hers own Superman or a combination of different Supermen. What matters is that he is their favorite superhero and as long as he is considered that for people it's all fine then.

    I never understood why there has to be competition instead of unification. Watching people fight or even trashtalk each other over which Superman is the best puts under question if they are his fans at all, because fighting each other is a complete opposite of what Superman stands for.
    Yes! I agree with this!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think it shouldn't be about which movie is better.

    Superman is 80 years old character who had countless versions of himself and there is literally no consistent and definitive version of the character that every single person on Earth would like. Not a single version is flawless. What matters is if a version of Superman gives a person positive emotions and inspiration. He can do that as Superman from Man of Steel, as Superman from Superman Returns, as Superman from Smallville, as Superman from New 52, etc. It all depends on an individual. In the end his core is always the same - he is just a guy trying to do the right thing. But the way how this core is given can vary and each version appeals to different kind of people, because different persons find this core appealing under different kinds of challenges and circumstances that are thrown against Superman to struggle against.

    I think people would've made their lives easier if they accepted the fact that their favorite version of Superman is not universally liked, but were happy for the fact that there is so many Supermen for diffetent people and he keeps being people's superhero through different narratives.

    In the end if you ask people to describe why Superman is their favorite superhero, there will be differences in description, because every person has his or hers own Superman or a combination of different Supermen. What matters is that he is their favorite superhero and as long as he is considered that for people it's all fine then.

    I never understood why there has to be competition instead of unification. Watching people fight or even trashtalk each other over which Superman is the best puts under question if they are his fans at all, because fighting each other is a complete opposite of what Superman stands for.
    The problem is that some versions of Superman are more than just different.

    My favorite version of Superman is the Pre-Crisis Earth-1 guy. I absolutely prefer the Superboy career, Lex as a former pal turned enemy, Legion of Superhero membership, … But that never made me unable to enjoy the Earth-2/Golden Age Superman stories, or the Reeves movies. I even have some stuff from the 1950's TV series I prefer over those movies. So it's not that I can't appreciate other tales on Superman that my favorite one.

    But there are some Superman takes I actually dislike. Usually they are minor parts of Superman versions I otherwise can enjoy. Things like the high-school football star Clark in Byrne's origin or the "I just want to be like everyone else" attitude on Smallville. In the first case it wasn't something that came up a lot, so it was easy to just ignore it. In the latter I slogged through those scenes.

    But in the case of Smallville, I had a resentment that the stuff I disliked was now part of how fans of the show saw Superman. Yeah, we were all fans of Superman. But the character I was a fan of had always seen his powers as a part of him, a part he embraced most of the time. And with 10 years of a different take being in ascendance I knew there was a possibility that the Smallville ideas would become prominent in other versions of Superman. Man of Steel took some of that attitude with it's Clark- the scene with his hearing in grade school appearing early on.

    And there are other things in Man of Steel that were more than just variations, but actual incompatible with my view. You can be a fan of those things, but if you are then at best we are fans of only some parts of Superman and at worst fans of totally different characters who share the Superman name and powers. And if there were competing films where we ould each have "our" Superman I'd be OK with that. But when DC is going to be making a single Superman movie or comic or TV show, then I've got to root for the things I like and oppose the things I dislike … even if other fans don't agree.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokimaru View Post
    To me Pa Kent is like the Step Dad that weathered all the Sickness and late nights and bad stuff but real Dad just need to show up to get the love. Pa raised Clark well enough so he could fulfill Jor-El's plans. That says something.
    Well said.

    Lets look at Pa Kent: He worries about His Families Safety first before helping others, he'll let Clark fight his own battles regardless of the consequences, lets his son decide what kind of person he wants to be but believes his Son will change the world one day. Does that sound like the moral monster that people paint him as? Or just a regular human being?
    No, he doesn't sound like a monster. I will say, though, that Jonathan's "Maybe..." never came off as a desire to put his son's safety before helping others. Jonathan clearly frames his outlook as bigger than those concerns. He wants Clark to keep his super side a secret because it's a secret that could change the entire the world. He sees the revelation that life exists somewhere out in the universe and one of those beings has godlike powers as a paradigm shift for humanity in the vein of the Reformation, electricity, or the atomic bomb. Jonathan wants his teenage son to be careful because he believes the best way to protect both Clark AND help others is to make sure that Clark is mature enough to handle the responsibility his existence entails. In other words, Jonathan worries about protecting Clark precisely because he believes protecting his son while he's still a boy is the best way to help others.

  7. #37
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Which also completely screws up the Superman II chronology, if you accepted Returns as a legit sequel (I do not...). So you mean to say that shortly after Supes and Lois' dalliance, Supes all of the sudden discovers remnants of Krypton, Richard shows up, and BOOM! he and Lois start an intimate relationship? All within a matter of days or weeks? Are you effin' kidding me? Who didn't think this through and figured this was a great idea?
    Yeah... the only scenarios I can possibly/maybe/kinda-sorta if I squint see involve Lois and Richard meeting while drunk (she feels betrayed/hurt/etc by Superman and overdoes it, maybe he's in the same place over someone else and shared experience turns them to each other) and the relationship "starting over" in a sense when they talk the next morning and genuinely like each other. Then she finds out she's pregnant and thinks it could be from the first night (or something). I'm even reluctant over this scenario because it feels out of place completely with how I see Lois, I'm just trying to think of a scenario where her guard would be down quickly with Richard and I'm failing to come up with anything that clicks for me. Someone else could probably come up with something better, at least I'd hope so. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think it shouldn't be about which movie is better.

    Superman is 80 years old character who had countless versions of himself and there is literally no consistent and definitive version of the character that every single person on Earth would like. Not a single version is flawless. What matters is if a version of Superman gives a person positive emotions and inspiration. He can do that as Superman from Man of Steel, as Superman from Superman Returns, as Superman from Smallville, as Superman from New 52, etc. It all depends on an individual. In the end his core is always the same - he is just a guy trying to do the right thing. But the way how this core is given can vary and each version appeals to different kind of people, because different persons find this core appealing under different kinds of challenges and circumstances that are thrown against Superman to struggle against.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    The problem is that some versions of Superman are more than just different. And there are other things in Man of Steel that were more than just variations, but actual incompatible with my view. You can be a fan of those things, but if you are then at best we are fans of only some parts of Superman and at worst fans of totally different characters who share the Superman name and powers. And if there were competing films where we ould each have "our" Superman I'd be OK with that. But when DC is going to be making a single Superman movie or comic or TV show, then I've got to root for the things I like and oppose the things I dislike … even if other fans don't agree.
    I see and agree with both of these takes. I generally have an "all-inclusive" idea of Superman and can roll with changes in emphasis.. but SR and MoS broke harder character walls (for me) than I was cool with. And as much as I love the Post-Crisis Superman and will absolutely defend him (with some exceptions, Superman #22 for example), I can see how others look at some of those things and don't like them at all.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think it shouldn't be about which movie is better.

    Superman is 80 years old character who had countless versions of himself and there is literally no consistent and definitive version of the character that every single person on Earth would like. Not a single version is flawless. What matters is if a version of Superman gives a person positive emotions and inspiration. He can do that as Superman from Man of Steel, as Superman from Superman Returns, as Superman from Smallville, as Superman from New 52, etc. It all depends on an individual. In the end his core is always the same - he is just a guy trying to do the right thing. But the way how this core is given can vary and each version appeals to different kind of people, because different persons find this core appealing under different kinds of challenges and circumstances that are thrown against Superman to struggle against.

    I think people would've made their lives easier if they accepted the fact that their favorite version of Superman is not universally liked, but were happy for the fact that there is so many Supermen for diffetent people and he keeps being people's superhero through different narratives.

    In the end if you ask people to describe why Superman is their favorite superhero, there will be differences in description, because every person has his or hers own Superman or a combination of different Supermen. What matters is that he is their favorite superhero and as long as he is considered that for people it's all fine then.

    I never understood why there has to be competition instead of unification. Watching people fight or even trashtalk each other over which Superman is the best puts under question if they are his fans at all, because fighting each other is a complete opposite of what Superman stands for.
    Well, aren't you just a sweetheart!

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    The problem is that some versions of Superman are more than just different.

    My favorite version of Superman is the Pre-Crisis Earth-1 guy. I absolutely prefer the Superboy career, Lex as a former pal turned enemy, Legion of Superhero membership, … But that never made me unable to enjoy the Earth-2/Golden Age Superman stories, or the Reeves movies. I even have some stuff from the 1950's TV series I prefer over those movies. So it's not that I can't appreciate other tales on Superman that my favorite one.

    But there are some Superman takes I actually dislike. Usually they are minor parts of Superman versions I otherwise can enjoy. Things like the high-school football star Clark in Byrne's origin or the "I just want to be like everyone else" attitude on Smallville. In the first case it wasn't something that came up a lot, so it was easy to just ignore it. In the latter I slogged through those scenes.

    But in the case of Smallville, I had a resentment that the stuff I disliked was now part of how fans of the show saw Superman. Yeah, we were all fans of Superman. But the character I was a fan of had always seen his powers as a part of him, a part he embraced most of the time. And with 10 years of a different take being in ascendance I knew there was a possibility that the Smallville ideas would become prominent in other versions of Superman. Man of Steel took some of that attitude with it's Clark- the scene with his hearing in grade school appearing early on.

    And there are other things in Man of Steel that were more than just variations, but actual incompatible with my view. You can be a fan of those things, but if you are then at best we are fans of only some parts of Superman and at worst fans of totally different characters who share the Superman name and powers. And if there were competing films where we ould each have "our" Superman I'd be OK with that. But when DC is going to be making a single Superman movie or comic or TV show, then I've got to root for the things I like and oppose the things I dislike … even if other fans don't agree.
    I grew up with the pre-Crisis Earth 1 Superman in comics also, but I learned from watching the Donner-Superman movie that any adaptation is going to take liberties with the character and change stuff. It took me awhile to warm up to Donner's movie because so many things had been changed from the comics -- mostly visuals, but also with his powers like turning back time. In time, I learned to appreciate the movie in spite of those things.

    Later, Superboy, Lois and Clark, and Smallville all made their changes, and I like all these shows.

    So, that's why by the time Man of Steel came around, I was just willing to let the creators do their thing, and I found their thing to be very intriguing. I'm ok with Superman not being the classic Superman right off the bat because I saw in the script and in Henry's performance that he was struggling to get there, and I loved that we got to witness that process. I imagine if Snyder were left alone we would have seen the culmination of Superman's character arc/hero's journey and he would have been at least a Snyderverse approximation of the classic Superman that we know. I didn't mind the more real-world take on the character. In fact, I preferred it.

    My feeling is that since all these movies and TV shows are just adaptations and not official comics canon, then go for it and let me see the character in a new way. I was still definitely able to recognize the character's essential goodness and his wanting to do the right thing in Snyder's version.

  10. #40
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    I grew up with the pre-Crisis Earth 1 Superman in comics also, but I learned from watching the Donner-Superman movie that any adaptation is going to take liberties with the character and change stuff. It took me awhile to warm up to Donner's movie because so many things had been changed from the comics -- mostly visuals, but also with his powers like turning back time. In time, I learned to appreciate the movie in spite of those things.

    Later, Superboy, Lois and Clark, and Smallville all made their changes, and I like all these shows.

    So, that's why by the time Man of Steel came around, I was just willing to let the creators do their thing, and I found their thing to be very intriguing. I'm ok with Superman not being the classic Superman right off the bat because I saw in the script and in Henry's performance that he was struggling to get there, and I loved that we got to witness that process. I imagine if Snyder were left alone we would have seen the culmination of Superman's character arc/hero's journey and he would have been at least a Snyderverse approximation of the classic Superman that we know. I didn't mind the more real-world take on the character. In fact, I preferred it.

    My feeling is that since all these movies and TV shows are just adaptations and not official comics canon, then go for it and let me see the character in a new way. I was still definitely able to recognize the character's essential goodness and his wanting to do the right thing in Snyder's version.
    Agree with all of this, particularly the last paragraph. To me the "real" Superman is the one published in the comics, and everything else is just adapting that. That's why i've always been a bit more open to different takes in live action. That's why I can enjoy everything from the Reeves TV show through the Cavill movies and just treat each illeration as it's own thing and not get hung up on my own preferences. There are of course things that i dislike and things I prefer but to me it's ALL Superman.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  11. #41
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I convinced myself for a few years that SUPERMAN RETURNS was better than it was. While it was a nicely shot film and had some nice homages to the Donner filmverse, it completely fails as a Superman movie for me. The acting is awful, the plot is dull, and Superman comes off as less likable than the guy he's competing against for Lois. Heck, he comes off as less likable than Lex Luthor. I've seen the movie twice - once in the theater, and once on video. Of the live-action Superman films, I've seen it the least.

    MAN OF STEEL had its flaws, and it pretty much loses all steam in the third act. But I just had a much better feeling leaving the theater after watching it than I did with SR. It definitely set the franchise up better and could have paved the way for a entertaining DC Film Universe but fans reacted too negatively to BATMAN v. SUPERMAN, and SUICIDE SQUAD and JUSTICE LEAGUE were major misfires.

    Honestly, I think the best version of Superman I've seen in a live-action film was in BvS. The more I watch and reflect on the movie, the more I really like it.

  12. #42
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I convinced myself for a few years that SUPERMAN RETURNS was better than it was. While it was a nicely shot film and had some nice homages to the Donner filmverse, it completely fails as a Superman movie for me. The acting is awful, the plot is dull, and Superman comes off as less likable than the guy he's competing against for Lois. Heck, he comes off as less likable than Lex Luthor. I've seen the movie twice - once in the theater, and once on video. Of the live-action Superman films, I've seen it the least.

    MAN OF STEEL had its flaws, and it pretty much loses all steam in the third act. But I just had a much better feeling leaving the theater after watching it than I did with SR. It definitely set the franchise up better and could have paved the way for a entertaining DC Film Universe but fans reacted too negatively to BATMAN v. SUPERMAN, and SUICIDE SQUAD and JUSTICE LEAGUE were major misfires.

    Honestly, I think the best version of Superman I've seen in a live-action film was in BvS. The more I watch and reflect on the movie, the more I really like it.
    There were elements of a great sequel in BvS. Unfortunately it had the double burden of building a universe on top of doing a Superman sequel. On it's own terms the Ultimate cut is my third favorite Superman feature film ( behind the Donner film and MOS).

    You and I was in the same boat for SR. I actually saw it twice in the theater. Once on opening day and another showing two weeks later. The first showing i went in pumped and came out not really knowing how i felt. I watched it a second time and i actually nodded off to sleep for a few minutes.

    I still sorta wish we got a sequel with Brainiac. I think Singer had a good Superman movie in him if he could have gotten over his misguided fanwanking of Donner.Of course knowing what we know now about Singer and Spacey it's just as well we didn't get one. I still feel bad for Routh.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 09-25-2018 at 05:48 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  13. #43
    Master Hero Vladimir
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think it shouldn't be about which movie is better.

    Superman is 80 years old character who had countless versions of himself and there is literally no consistent and definitive version of the character that every single person on Earth would like. Not a single version is flawless. What matters is if a version of Superman gives a person positive emotions and inspiration. He can do that as Superman from Man of Steel, as Superman from Superman Returns, as Superman from Smallville, as Superman from New 52, etc. It all depends on an individual. In the end his core is always the same - he is just a guy trying to do the right thing. But the way how this core is given can vary and each version appeals to different kind of people, because different persons find this core appealing under different kinds of challenges and circumstances that are thrown against Superman to struggle against.

    I think people would've made their lives easier if they accepted the fact that their favorite version of Superman is not universally liked, but were happy for the fact that there is so many Supermen for diffetent people and he keeps being people's superhero through different narratives.

    In the end if you ask people to describe why Superman is their favorite superhero, there will be differences in description, because every person has his or hers own Superman or a combination of different Supermen. What matters is that he is their favorite superhero and as long as he is considered that for people it's all fine then.

    I never understood why there has to be competition instead of unification. Watching people fight or even trashtalk each other over which Superman is the best puts under question if they are his fans at all, because fighting each other is a complete opposite of what Superman stands for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    The problem is that some versions of Superman are more than just different.

    My favorite version of Superman is the Pre-Crisis Earth-1 guy. I absolutely prefer the Superboy career, Lex as a former pal turned enemy, Legion of Superhero membership, … But that never made me unable to enjoy the Earth-2/Golden Age Superman stories, or the Reeves movies. I even have some stuff from the 1950's TV series I prefer over those movies. So it's not that I can't appreciate other tales on Superman that my favorite one.

    But there are some Superman takes I actually dislike. Usually they are minor parts of Superman versions I otherwise can enjoy. Things like the high-school football star Clark in Byrne's origin or the "I just want to be like everyone else" attitude on Smallville. In the first case it wasn't something that came up a lot, so it was easy to just ignore it. In the latter I slogged through those scenes.

    But in the case of Smallville, I had a resentment that the stuff I disliked was now part of how fans of the show saw Superman. Yeah, we were all fans of Superman. But the character I was a fan of had always seen his powers as a part of him, a part he embraced most of the time. And with 10 years of a different take being in ascendance I knew there was a possibility that the Smallville ideas would become prominent in other versions of Superman. Man of Steel took some of that attitude with it's Clark- the scene with his hearing in grade school appearing early on.

    And there are other things in Man of Steel that were more than just variations, but actual incompatible with my view. You can be a fan of those things, but if you are then at best we are fans of only some parts of Superman and at worst fans of totally different characters who share the Superman name and powers. And if there were competing films where we ould each have "our" Superman I'd be OK with that. But when DC is going to be making a single Superman movie or comic or TV show, then I've got to root for the things I like and oppose the things I dislike … even if other fans don't agree.
    You have very valid arguments. Superman is more than just an immensely valuable commercial property for DC, he is an icon of popular culture with millions, if not billions, of fans all over the world. He might be liked for several different reasons, but the unifying aspect of that passion is that we are all fans of Superman. Superman is 80-years old and authors will always face the challenge of bringing something new to the table while remaining consistent to what's come before, so obviously, some creativity is required in adapting the character and his world to any form of entertainment media. The fact that fans are arguing which version of Superman is the best is a testament of how Superman has endured the passage of time and is still a hero to many people all over the world. I might not be a fan of certain versions of Superman (Smallville), but I'm glad to see those versions have fans to begin with, because I can respect their opinions and take comfort on the fact that we are all fans of Superman.

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member astro@work's Avatar
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    These two movies are like apples and oranges to me.

    SR's represented the "last of the Silver Age" movies to me. It reflected a simpler era, and didn't branch out far enough from the Donner movies. Too afraid to give Supes a real badass villain, and so relied on the done-to-death Lex. (Why oh why didn't they do Brainiac here?)
    Richard was there to put some tension in the Clark/Lois relationship, but we liked him too much. Ultimately it suffered from the flaw of being boring.

    MOS conversely represented the modern era of trying to make everything edgy and angsty. Loved Cavill, hated their take on Jonathan.
    Never had a problem with the Zod resolution because I'd already seen Byrne's Superman kill Zod, and it was painted as a resolution he was forced to make after exhausting all options. I did love the edginess of Zod's invasion. The "destruction porn" was the clear difference between the Donner era and the Snyder era.
    I never believed in Superman II how little damage was done to the city (broken windows mostly). The Snyder version made Zod's threat much clearer and realistic.
    Ultimately it suffered the flaw of being too edgy and taking the shine off of a hopeful optimistic Superman.

    Both flawed, but I'd watch either of them again.

  15. #45
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    I think Man of Steel is better then Superman Returns, but that's not saying much.

    Besides the plane scene, I found Superman Returns to be a bore and that version of Lex in that film is one of the dumber villains in a comic book movie, his plan makes no sense. Also Superman seems like a creep and a dead beat in that film.

    Man of Steel had a better villain, more exciting action scenes and was overall better, but it had a lot of problems, Jonathan Kent is unsympathetic, too much 9/11 imagery and a lot of people did not like Superman killing Zod.

    I think Man of Steel would be more well regarded if Superman learned anything from that film and developed into a better super hero in next adventure, I can buy a rookie Superman making mistakes, if he corrects them next time and grows into a better hero, but in the next film, he just seems to make the same mistakes, seem less sympathetic then before and we get another stupid version of Lex Luthor in Batman v Superman. Really Batman v Superman kinda ruined Man of Steel, IMO.

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