Man of Steel is not better than Superman Returns

[dancj]

When you have a Pa Kent telling Clark he should have let a busload of kids drown to protect his secret.... and Ma telling him that he doesn't owe anybody anything. THOSE were the big killers for me. It abandoned so much of 'who superman is' and more importantly 'why Superman is who he is' that I can't stand them.

I disagree on Ma. Superman shouldn't feel like he owes anyone anything. He should do what's right because it's right rather than any sense of debt.

In in the case of Pa Kent, he's just one voice (who didn't actually say Clark should have let them die). If Clark had actually started letting people die to protect his identity that would have been different, but he didn't, so I don't have a problem with that.

[JAK]

And to give put a better note on things after what all I've said before, I just wanted to quote something Jason Mamoa (recently?) said about Henry:

“Henry is the gentlemen who taught me when I came on not knowing anything. I’m like the ruffian hooligan, and he’s just like, ‘There’s kids watching,’ and I’m like, ‘Oh, yeah. My bad.’ He is totally 100 percent the Superman for me.”

That is just all kinds of awesome. I love it.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I disagree on Ma. Superman shouldn't feel like he owes anyone anything. He should do what's right because it's right rather than any sense of debt.

In in the case of Pa Kent, he's just one voice (who didn't actually say Clark should have let them die). If Clark had actually started letting people die to protect his identity that would have been different, but he didn't, so I don't have a problem with that.

He let Jonathan die for that very reason.

[Agent Z]

He let Jonathan die for that very reason.

He didn't let him. Jonathan sacrificed himself.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

He didn't let him. Jonathan sacrificed himself.

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[stargazer01]

And to give put a better note on things after what all I've said before, I just wanted to quote something Jason Mamoa (recently?) said about Henry:



That is just all kinds of awesome. I love it.

I love it too. I think Henry really understood what it means to be a Superman and a superhero. I'm glad Jason said that, because it makes me proud to be a Cavill fan.

“Henry is the gentlemen who taught me when I came on not knowing anything. I’m like the ruffian hooligan, and he’s just like, ‘There’s kids watching,’ and I’m like, ‘Oh, yeah. My bad.’ He is totally 100 percent the Superman for me.”

[phantom1592]

I love it too. I think Henry really understood what it means to be a Superman and a superhero. I'm glad Jason said that, because it makes me proud to be a Cavill fan.

Yeah... much like Brandon Routh, I never give any grief to Cavill. I thought in interviews and stuff that he truly made a good superman.... it's just the scripts they were both saddled with. If Cavill had played Superman in better scripts... and a better costume... I think he could have given Reeves a run for his money. I'm a fan of the actor.

[Zero Hunter]

I disagree on Ma. Superman shouldn't feel like he owes anyone anything. He should do what's right because it's right rather than any sense of debt.

In in the case of Pa Kent, he's just one voice (who didn't actually say Clark should have let them die). If Clark had actually started letting people die to protect his identity that would have been different, but he didn't, so I don't have a problem with that.

Everyone likes to harp on the thing about the bus with Pa. To me that scene rings very true. All Jonathon was thinking about at that moment was his sons safety. He knows that if the world found out about who Clark is the govt would be there in 5 minutes to take him away, and probably lock him and his wife away too. All he was thinking about was keeping his family safe which is what 99.9% of people would do faced with the same situation.

[stargazer01]

Yeah... much like Brandon Routh, I never give any grief to Cavill. I thought in interviews and stuff that he truly made a good superman.... it's just the scripts they were both saddled with. If Cavill had played Superman in better scripts... and a better costume... I think he could have given Reeves a run for his money. I'm a fan of the actor.

Well I loved the Cavill Superman suits, tho the JL one was a bit overdone. And it didn't help that the visual FX were not finished.. But the MOS and BvS ones are beautiful and very alien, IMO. I also think Henry made a very memorable Superman in Man of Steel. He wasn't a copy of Reeve, he was his own. He was on a journey to become the Superman from Justice League. At least that's how I see it.

Everyone likes to harp on the thing about the bus with Pa. To me that scene rings very true. All Jonathon was thinking about at that moment was his sons safety. He knows that if the world found out about who Clark is the govt would be there in 5 minutes to take him away, and probably lock him and his wife away too. All he was thinking about was keeping his family safe which is what 99.9% of people would do faced with the same situation.

I don't hate that scene. It makes sense as a parent, but at the same time it confuses a boy who just wants to do the right thing. But this is the world Snyder created, gritty and very realistic. Nothing is black or white. It's an interesting character study, but it lacks the lighthearted fun of the Donner version. It isn't a crowd pleaser, for better or for worse...

[Mia]

It's own vision? They copied and pasted Batman Begins

No they didn't. Superman/Clark in MOS was an outsider who wanted to fit in and be 'normal'. Bruce Wayne/Batman wanted justice for those who preyed on the weak (killed his parents). And your post is subjective. I frankly found SR a chore to watch. How Bryan Singer continues to get work is beyond me.

[JAK]

I love it too. I think Henry really understood what it means to be a Superman and a superhero. I'm glad Jason said that, because it makes me proud to be a Cavill fan.

Yeah... much like Brandon Routh, I never give any grief to Cavill. I thought in interviews and stuff that he truly made a good superman.... it's just the scripts they were both saddled with. If Cavill had played Superman in better scripts... and a better costume... I think he could have given Reeves a run for his money. I'm a fan of the actor.

On both of these - absolutely. I may not be a Snyder or Goyer fan when it comes to Superman, but I'm definitely a Cavill fan. I like Brandon a lot, too, and felt he could have done more with a script that didn't try to "actor proof" the role - in the end, swiping so many lines verbatim from "Superman: The Movie" made things worse, not better.

Well I loved the Cavill Superman suits, tho the JL one was a bit overdone. And it didn't help that the visual FX were not finished.. But the MOS and BvS ones are beautiful and very alien, IMO. I also think Henry made a very memorable Superman in Man of Steel. He wasn't a copy of Reeve, he was his own. He was on a journey to become the Superman from Justice League. At least that's how I see it.

Out of all of the Cavill suits, MoS has by far the best design. It's just a bit too dark. Give me MoS's suit with BvS's colors (before they went nuts with the blue filter, anyway) and I'd be happy. Or even better, have the red be more like the Thor MCU cape and we'd be golden.

I don't hate that scene. It makes sense as a parent, but at the same time it confuses a boy who just wants to do the right thing. But this is the world Snyder created, gritty and very realistic. Nothing is black or white. It's an interesting character study, but it lacks the lighthearted fun of the Donner version. It isn't a crowd pleaser, for better or for worse...

I get what they're going for, but it is a scene I think they could have handled better. Have Pa say "Maybe... maybe you need to be more careful so you're not seen." and then go into what he says about people not being ready and giving him the chance to present himself on his own terms or, if he'd prefer, not at all. It's not much of a change, but it does change a lot, imo. People understand a Pa who thinks of his son first, but a number of people draw the line somewhere before suggesting "let people die."

[stargazer01]

Out of all of the Cavill suits, MoS has by far the best design. It's just a bit too dark. Give me MoS's suit with BvS's colors (before they went nuts with the blue filter, anyway) and I'd be happy. Or even better, have the red be more like the Thor MCU cape and we'd be golden.




I get what they're going for, but it is a scene I think they could have handled better. Have Pa say "Maybe... maybe you need to be more careful so you're not seen." and then go into what he says about people not being ready and giving him the chance to present himself on his own terms or, if he'd prefer, not at all. It's not much of a change, but it does change a lot, imo. People understand a Pa who thinks of his son first, but a number of people draw the line somewhere before suggesting "let people die."

I agree about the MOS suit. It just needed brighter colors, but I think it showed Cavill's muscles the best and more natural looking than the others.

Regarding the "maybe" Pa Kent scene.. I know what you mean, Snyder could have done a different way to say something similar but less controversial.. The way it was in the movie, it is a lot more thought-provoking, though, and I think that's exactly why Snyder wanted it that way.. I just don't think it makes Pa look good, or more sensitive and nurturing like we remember him or used to. That's the Snyder way it seems: deconstruction and controverse. He just wasn't a great fit for Supes, imo. :/

[DochaDocha]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say Snyder's take on Jonathan Kent has the upside of Superman's morality appears to be more of Superman's own creation than that of his parents. There's value in saying he determined right and wrong on his own instead of having it shaped directly by his parents.

[Francisco]

He let Jonathan die for that very reason.

He allowed Pa to die because he loved and respected him. After saying in the heat of the moment that Jonathan wasn't his real father he couldn't just ignore a direct order from him and confirm by action that he didn't actually considered him his father. By letting Jon die he was saying: Yes, dad I love you and I respect your judgment and I trust you. And all that nonsese of you not being my real dad is just that nonsense.

[HeroVladimir93]

I still don't understand why people give Jonathan so much grief. He loved his son very much and he was just as uncomfortable as Clark was in the situations he faced in his childhood. He isn't perfect, but he did his best to raise Clark and deep down, Clark understands that. That just adds an entirely new level of nuance and gravitas to their relationship.