Billy Batson and Shazam should have about the same age

[goldenknight2018]

Too similar to Superman, maybe.

dcau producer does not interact with Captain Marvel, they're probably not enough shazam/captain marvel fans, only a few people at dc care about captain marvel, and yet, not too many people at dc care about captain marvel which is very disappointing.

copy from NEWSARAMA

Mark Waid: “They don’t have a clue. It has been said to me by management more than once that he is a played-out character, nobody cares, and ‘name one good Captain Marvel story.’"

“There’s a ton of ‘em! But the problem is, once you have guys in charge who think that the character is useless and dumb and stupid and sucks, there’s nothing you can do to change their mind. All you can do is ride it out and wait for the next guy to come along who has vision, and is excited about the character, and really do something with him."

“We all would do that character for almost free! But for whatever reason, the powers that be have decided that the character is for kids and played out and dumb…and by the way, ‘for kids’ is somehow seen as a bad thing."

“Unfortunately, the rap on Captain Marvel is that he’s a second-rate Superman, no one wants to read him, and he’s a sad, played-out character, and talking tigers and evil worms are stupid.”

Elliot Maggin: “The modern audience has to be under 10. And nobody wants to write for them."
“The character has to be written toward kids, but that doesn’t preclude other age groups. I thought Harry Potter was some of the best writing in years. The medium works for kids; it just doesn’t work for some adults.”

not many people want to read about adult manchild captain marvel/Shazam. why? captain marvel can't join teen titans I never a fan of Young Justice, why because of little boy billy at 7 years old turn into adult captain marvel team with young Justice?

adult captain marvel who is really little boy billy at 7 years old join justice league, this is really bad writing.

I felt Billy Batson and Shazam should have about the same age, I read Superman Future's end it about 20 years old Billy Batson pose as Superman that five years in the future, that very close to adult captain marvel that makes sense
I hope Geoff Johns fix it, and hopefully, billy turn 18 and better not remain 15. he been the kid for over 75 years !!

look at the titans they all grown up

[Robanker]

The problem is you're essentially saying "give Batman powers" because you're removing his primary hook. If you remove that element of Captain Marvel, he actually kind of becomes a second-rate Superman. Embrace the character, don't mangle them to fit the tastes of people who were never going to like them anyway. I think making him a bit older, closer to 16, was enough of an update to allow more storytelling.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

The problem is you're essentially saying "give Batman powers" because you're removing his primary hook. If you remove that element of Captain Marvel, he actually kind of becomes a second-rate Superman. Embrace the character, don't mangle them to fit the tastes of people who were never going to like them anyway. I think making him a bit older, closer to 16, was enough of an update to allow more storytelling.

Seconded. I’d see an adult Shazam series working, but only as a sequel series where we’ve already seen him as a kid.

[phantom1592]

The problem is you're essentially saying "give Batman powers" because you're removing his primary hook. If you remove that element of Captain Marvel, he actually kind of becomes a second-rate Superman. Embrace the character, don't mangle them to fit the tastes of people who were never going to like them anyway. I think making him a bit older, closer to 16, was enough of an update to allow more storytelling.

Even that was way too old. Billy should be closer to 10-12. Once characters start getting to around 16... that leads to whole OTHER stories. Is Billy sexually active? That seemed to be a big push in a few of the teen titans books. Is he driving a car? Why can't he fight on his own? DC is littered with characters in their mid-late teens that are vigilante powerhouses.... and that's not the core of either Billy Batson or the Wish-fulfillment Concept that Is Captain Marvel.

He NEEDS that huge age/power gap to keep him different from all the other characters out there.

[Walter Simonson]

Too similar to Superman, maybe.

... even Walt Simonson says he hates Captain Marvel, he probably thinks man-child is very strange, which I agree, they're probably not enough shazam/captain marvel fans, only a few people at dc care about captain marvel, and yet, not too many people at dc care about captain marvel which is very disappointing...

I've never heard this before and have no idea where the notion that I hate Captain Marvel comes from. I'd be happy to see reference to the source of this remark. I even wrote and drew Captain Marvel in a couple of issues of ORION when I was writing and drawing the book for DC. Had fun doing it.

[Lee Stone]

What makes Billy/Shazam unique is that he's the embodiment of power fantasy/wish fulfillment, with those powers given to a child not tainted by self-importance or jaded by society.
So, Billy should be the most noble of all heroes, due to his stronger trait of innocence.

And then you have the 'Chosen One' trope that deems that Billy is worthy. Not of a mystical ring, nor of spider-powers, but of the powers of the Gods, themselves.

There's a great deal of room for all kinds of stories by modern writers. And they would appeal to all kinds of readers.

The problem is right there in the quotes:

"...the powers that be have decided that the character is for kids and played out and dumb…and by the way, ‘for kids’ is somehow seen as a bad thing."

That's a major problem for DC. In their efforts to show themselves 'all grown up' they forget that a lot of the most endearing stories, in any medium, are ones that can be enjoyed by all ages.

[The_Lurk]

*looks at the upcoming amount of Superman movies and Shazam movies*

... uh-huh... 'k. If they see Captain Marvel as 2nd rate Superman and generally hate him they are pretty generous with throwing money at that character. Is there not also a new comic series of him around the corner?

https://www.dccomics.com/comics/shazam-2018/shazam-1

[Midnight_v]

‘name one good Captain Marvel story.’"

Kingdom Come.
Every Miracle Man story...
Supermans End.
Black Hammer
....
I kinda see his point. The actual actual "good" stories of Captain Marvel are either elseworlds or Captain Ersatz

Decades have passed and I'd thought it was just because D.C. somehow look at him as a "Trophy" a defeated superman proxie that can't
be allowed to outshine the cash cow, not acknowledging his incredible potential.

Reading what you've read here, and what I've never thought about is that his narrative is broke.

Billy Batson doesn't get to grow up but some of the most interesting stories start to manifest when you see the ramifications of growing up being a "good guy/hero"
and being one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

Then the terror of him being sexually active is... another subject people don't want to engage with, because facing the reality of what 13 to 16 year olds are doing ... "ONLINE" in out
Current Era is something that parents don't really want to account for...

Lastly...

the powers that be have decided that the character is for kids and played out and dumb…and by the way, ‘for kids’ is somehow seen as a bad thing."

“Unfortunately, the rap on Captain Marvel is that he’s a second-rate Superman, no one wants to read him, and he’s a sad, played-out character, and talking tigers and evil worms are stupid.”

Sentient Flat Worm Colonies are terrifying. Giving them Mental superpowers... its... the stuff of nightmares.
Rakshasa - Shapeshifting tiger demons that have plagued humanity for ever would be interesting and scary too...
but... "Terrifying" and "Kids" book are kinda pushed apart. (Despite those scary stories to tell in the dark covers)

It would be okay to market to kids, but... he has Diet Supermans powers, wonderwomans myth analogue, the flashes "Look"...

And No One will every let him use "The Wisdom" of Solomon which... They had "Peace on Earth, and the Spirit of Truth... " and I dont remember batman's but the Wisdom was a book that I was
waiting for, and until they address that he's NOT just a weaker superman, but someone worth of holding the powers of the "gods". (and that people can't take his powers with a voice emulator, Thanks flashpoint)
Billy will likely remain someone unsatisfying in the books at least. The movie looks great.

[Icefan]

That's a major problem for DC. In their efforts to show themselves 'all grown up' they forget that a lot of the most endearing stories, in any medium, are ones that can be enjoyed by all ages.

Comics! They're not just not for kids anymore!

[SilverWarriorWolf]

Kingdom Come.
Every Miracle Man story...
Supermans End.
Black Hammer

I’ll see these, and raise you a First Thunder, Multiversity: Thunderwold, Conversion: Shazam, The Power of Shazam, and, controversial as it is, plenty of people love Curse of Shazam.

I kinda see his point. The actual actual "good" stories of Captain Marvel are either elseworlds or Captain Ersatz

And here I bring up Superman Distant Fires, and Elseworlds story where he turned into a sexual harasser who destroys the world all so there could be a love triangle for Superman/Wonder Woman. Elseworlds are a crapshoot.

Billy Batson doesn't get to grow up but some of the most interesting stories start to manifest when you see the ramifications of growing up being a "good guy/hero” and being one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

I will agree here to wanting to see him grow up, but don’t start him there. You then lose the point of the kid who gained all these powers. IMO, start with him as a kid, and watch as having powers shapes how he grows. I’d be far more interested in watching it happen over time that starting him out as pretty much just magical Superman.

Sentient Flat Worm Colonies are terrifying. Giving them Mental superpowers... its... the stuff of nightmares.
Rakshasa - Shapeshifting tiger demons that have plagued humanity for ever would be interesting and scary too...
but... "Terrifying" and "Kids" book are kinda pushed apart. (Despite those scary stories to tell in the dark covers)

I’m pretty certain stories like Stranger Things have proven that adults don’t mind horror stories with child protagonist.

Also, when has Tawny been a Rakshasa? Golden Age and Postcrisis was just an anthropomorphic tiger, Shazam and the Monster Society of Evil called him an Ifrit (and I’m pretty certain Return of Black Adam was following that), and New 52 made him a normal tiger Billy enchanted.

It would be okay to market to kids, but... he has Diet Supermans powers, wonderwomans myth analogue, the flashes "Look"...

No. Just, no. This says “I’ve only taken a cursory glance at the character and am making an assumption.”

Here is a full list of his powers, Post Crisis: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red...dc_postcrisis/

And New 52: https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...zam_dc_new_52/

Yes, he has some powers similar to Superman, and Superman has some powers Captain Marvel does not, but the Shazam power set is far from “diet Superman.”

And No One will every let him use "The Wisdom" of Solomon which... They had "Peace on Earth, and the Spirit of Truth... " and I dont remember batman's but the Wisdom was a book that I was
waiting for, and until they address that he's NOT just a weaker superman, but someone worth of holding the powers of the "gods". (and that people can't take his powers with a voice emulator, Thanks flashpoint)
Billy will likely remain someone unsatisfying in the books at least. The movie looks great.

I agree that the movie looks good, and it is frustrating how little the Wisdom of Solomon is utilized. But I don’t think turning him into an adult, at least right away, will help. It will only convince people even more that he’s just a Superman copy.

I won’t say it can’t be done right. I’m just saying you need to make a classic before people will get on board.

[maxmcco]

*looks at the upcoming amount of Superman movies and Shazam movies*

... uh-huh... 'k. If they see Captain Marvel as 2nd rate Superman and generally hate him they are pretty generous with throwing money at that character. Is there not also a new comic series of him around the corner?

https://www.dccomics.com/comics/shazam-2018/shazam-1

The reason DC finally decided to make a comic after 20 years is because of the movie. Shazam was optioned by NewLine Cinema back in the early 2000s before there even was a DCEU. It got derailed by Superman Returns, and then derailed again by Man of Steel.

[Jim Kelly]

Michael Uslan--the producer and former comic book writer who was the person pushing to get all the Batman movies made going right back to the first Burton movie--has been trying to get a Captain Marvel (aka Shazam) movie made for just about as long.

There aren't really any characters that the DC top brass understand or know what to do with--creativity isn't their strong suit or they wouldn't be in the position they are in today. It's the lowlies who do the creating. And then when something is popular, the top execs proclaim absolute faith in the thing and push for more of that stuff to get done. Look how long Wonder Woman struggled to get a movie in the can, with mouthpieces bemoaning the weakness of the character--and then when the creative people make a good movie--suddenly Wonder Woman is the standard bearer of all things DC.

It's easy to scour the internet for quotes from the recent and distant past to support any argument you want to make. None of that matters until a movie is out there in the theatre. Then it will either sink or float based on how the public react to it. After which, all the top brass will either climb on board or jump ship.

As far as Billy's age, if the same actor stays in the role for any subsequent sequels, he'll soon grow into a man. I guess they could get the actor to pretend to be a teen, but eventually like Tom Holland it's not going to work.

I think they should have got a much younger actor, so we'd see him age over a few films like with Daniel Radcliffe in the Harry Potter movies. I prefer Billy to be around ten or eleven when he gets his powers. It makes a nicer contrast between child and adult.

[goldenknight2018]

I've never heard this before and have no idea where the notion that I hate Captain Marvel comes from. I'd be happy to see reference to the source of this remark. I even wrote and drew Captain Marvel in a couple of issues of ORION when I was writing and drawing the book for DC. Had fun doing it.

that come from old news articles own words about you wrote about Orion years back. this reporter who claims interview you. I can't remember the name of the website if I found that. I let you know.

[goldenknight2018]

I wonder if Dan Didio and Jim Lee read this any posts you'll never know big brothers are watching you
I realize that DC comics know everything about Captain Marvel history after I read Newsarama interview, dc decided to do their own way to do with captain marvel. dc reject better ideal about captain marvel stories 3 or 4 times. one more thing, I am not New gods fan, I am biggest Superman Fan

[Jody Garland]

What's wrong with Billy being on the Justice League? Mentally, he's not really a child, what with the Wisdom of Solomon kicking around in his skull, and physically he's obviously not. Plus, he's been on teams going back to the Bronze Age, where he lead the one-shot Shazam's Squadron of Justice. Agewise, he's probably a little older than 7- I've always pegged him at around 12 or 13, minimum.