CYBORG volume 3?

[Iconic]

I'd say take those two ideas and mash 'em together. Stop writing Cyborg in a constant state of self-pity and navel gazing, and start writing him as an upbeat, goofy, and fun-loving nerd/jock hybrid, whose general joie de vivre belies an occasional and understated melancholy introspection. Then return Cyborg's super OP abilities and organic-at-will power from Walker and Reis, so DC can never do that boring-ass "man or machine" crap again.

And then yeah, just because I've been saying it for seven whole years, send him to New Genesis for a while. Emphasize the Kirby connection. Let him spend some time with Orion and Lightray or something like that.

Organic-at-will. That’s the phrase I’ve been looking for.

They need to find someone that gives a damn first before they throw him another book. I'm tired of seeing a good character get mediocre titles.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Does anyone at DC care? Is there anyone there who wants to advance the concept of Cyborg?

[Robotman]

If the DC ptb continue to view Cyborg in such a limited capacity, I don’t think I want to see another series. Cyborg is a character with so much potential but as others have already said, he’s stuck with a boring design and with the “am I man or machine” role.

I’m waiting to see how he’s portrayed in Odyssey and holding out some hope that the book will improve his character. He at least has an improved design and his rumored antagonistic relationship with Darkseid could give him some more connections to the New Gods.

[Raijin]

I don't think they'll give him another series again. I'm pretty sure they'll find someway to throw him back into the Titans, just to make fans happy. Ugh.

[Vordan]

They need to find someone that gives a damn first before they throw him another book. I'm tired of seeing a good character get mediocre titles.

I thought Walker and Semper did care, they just didn’t get the freedom to accomplish what they set out to do.

[skyvolt2000]

[I]Yes. Yes. Yes. Does anyone at DC care? Is there anyone there who wants to advance the concept of Cyborg?

They had those writers.

Walker sort of did that with Number 13 and if he had Cyborg & his little buddy-you could have seen a DC version of Lion Forge's Superb.

Semper Jr wrote both Static & Peter Parker. He could have had a field day.

All this falls back on the EDITOR.

I'm pretty sure they'll find someway to throw him back into the Titans, just to make fans happy. Ugh.

That is because under Titans (comic & cartoon) version of Cyborg is WAY more interesting than the Justice League version.

Because SOMEBODY took time to build him up under Titans.

The Golden Boy JOHNS could not be bothered with Cyborg. Followed by a series of bad solo-solos so bad that you didn't see the first one until EVERY black hero at Marvel was without one. In a sad attempt to get interest that failed and got worst when Miles and friends came back.

A second solo-that was below 20K at issue 6. Falcon as Cap America took 2 years to hit that. Miles nor Panther did.

Here is how bad it is for Cyborg. Duke Thomas is DC's highest selling black character-his trade is the highest book with a black co-lead (duo) on Amazon. A guy who was barely in Batman. With a line of folks boycotting Batman's book over him. Yet got a well received 3 issue mini that did very well on Amazon Kindle.

Cyborg is suppose to be your top black hero. This is the best they can do? Help us all when Static shows up.

[Killerbee911]

Cyborg is suppose to be your top black hero. This is the best they can do? Help us all when Static shows up.

You don't even have add black,The decision to put Cyborg in the Justice league means is one of your premier heroes. Which means you are treating him like Superman and Batman,You are giving him the all star writer or artist. You are giving important roles in books and crossover.You have movie in the works and have back catalog of Titans,Teen titans comics and merchandise to sell. Cyborg is suppose to be the premier tech hero in DC basically DC's Iron man ,Cyborg is suppose to be "the modern hero". It is amazing how bad Cyborg has been sabotaged against success. Now I am not going to be completely down on everything they did because give leadership of the Justice League and good spotlight in Dark metal knights and Forever Evil but mismanaged his solo when the early issues is a lay up.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think there are certain characters that work best in team and ensemble books. Martian Manhunter is one and Cyborg is another, yet DC keeps trying and failing to make them work as solo characters. It doesn't mean they are lesser characters, it just means that they weren't designed to be solo characters, nor were Starfire, Raven or Beast Boy.

If DC wants to make these characters work in solo books, they need to find creative teams who are willing to change them and build them into solo characters.

[Iconic]

With Justice League Odyssey coming out this week, I'm curious about if Cyborg kept his redesign.

I know the covers still show it, but with the scrapping of the first two issues, is it possible Vic was reverted to the standard, low-tech look? Has there been any interiors of Cyborg leaked? I've been looking and haven't seen any.

[kurenai24]

I don't think they'll give him another series again. I'm pretty sure they'll find someway to throw him back into the Titans, just to make fans happy. Ugh.

I can only hope, maybe then DC will pick another black token to play with.

[Raijin]

I think there are certain characters that work best in team and ensemble books. Martian Manhunter is one and Cyborg is another, yet DC keeps trying and failing to make them work as solo characters. It doesn't mean they are lesser characters, it just means that they weren't designed to be solo characters, nor were Starfire, Raven or Beast Boy.

If DC wants to make these characters work in solo books, they need to find creative teams who are willing to change them and build them into solo characters.

This excuse will never make sense to me. With this kind of thinking, characters will never ever make it and instead will always be regulated to being a 'team character'

[Raijin]

I can only hope, maybe then DC will pick another black token to play with.

Him going back with Beast Boy and Starfire is some serious regression. But that's what fans like at the end of the day.

[Johnny]

I don't think I see them making Cyborg a Titan again. Or if they do, they will not make him "only" a Titan, but probably have him on both teams. One of the first things I noticed when Scott Snyder's JL was announced was obviously Cyborg's presence. That shows me DC weren't willing to give up on the character yet, because if they did drop him from the JL roster now that they had MM, John Stewart and Hawkgirl there, they would've basically admit to their audience that Cyborg was only there for diversity. But they didn't do that, which makes me think he won't be regressed back to being a Titan.

As for another Cyborg book? Why not, just make sure to have the right creative team and let them have freedom. Why isn't this discussed in the Cyborg thread anyway. lol

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This excuse will never make sense to me. With this kind of thinking, characters will never ever make it and instead will always be regulated to being a 'team character'

Read the last part of what I wrote again.

Currently, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Black Canary, Starfire, Raven and many, many more are best suited as part of team books. If DC wants them to work as solo characters, they need to find creators who are able to rebuild them to work as one, which is extremely difficult.

That doesn't mean DC should not try, but this is the biggest hurdle that these characters' solo titles have faced that none of them have been able to overcome. The point being that if you are going to give Cyborg or Martian Manhunter or any of these other characters a solo title again, you better think long and hard about how to rework their status quo so that they work as solo characters, otherwise you'll end up with yet another cancelled solo book.

[skyvolt2000]

Read the last part of what I wrote again.

Currently, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Black Canary, Starfire, Raven and many, many more are best suited as part of team books. If DC wants them to work as solo characters, they need to find creators who are able to rebuild them to work as one, which is extremely difficult.

That doesn't mean DC should not try, but this is the biggest hurdle that these characters' solo titles have faced that none of them have been able to overcome. The point being that if you are going to give Cyborg or Martian Manhunter or any of these other characters a solo title again, you better think long and hard about how to rework their status quo so that they work as solo characters, otherwise you'll end up with yet another cancelled solo book.

To be fair to Manhunter, Raven, Starfire & Canary-their books were not doomed from the start. No editor made it his business to screw them over.
Also those guys were more than background fodder in books.

And with the behavior of entitlement fans who want DICTATE who gets books-you can have the greatest creative team and fans will still stick their noses in the air or as we learned with Nadia, Moon Girl, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Iceman & America-OPENLY campaign a boycott of those books.

Maybe what is best is to use slots in those Wal-mart books for exclusive stories that WON'T see a trade. Since the comic book side seems to be the issue with so many.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

To be fair to Manhunter, Raven, Starfire & Canary-their books were not doomed from the start. No editor made it his business to screw them over.
Also those guys were more than background fodder in books.

And with the behavior of entitlement fans who want DICTATE who gets books-you can have the greatest creative team and fans will still stick their noses in the air or as we learned with Nadia, Moon Girl, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Iceman & America-OPENLY campaign a boycott of those books.

Maybe what is best is to use slots in those Wal-mart books for exclusive stories that WON'T see a trade. Since the comic book side seems to be the issue with so many.

If you could point out where I said that Cyborg, Martian Manhunter or the rest are background fodder or deserving of boycotts, I'd appreciate it

How about this? We have a discussion in which we respond to what we are actually saying to each other rather than whatever strawman you want to have a conversation with? Does that sound fair?

I'll start. Your idea to showcase characters that traditionally don't sell in comics shops at Walmart is an interesting one, but DC first needs to get a foothold there before it can start experimenting with any solo books beyond Superman & Batman, who are their most popular characters. If they can start building on that market, I think it's very likely we'll see books that don't do well in the Direct Market sell very differently with a more casual audience.