Why does Marvel keep starting their numbers over

[Magneto]

A certain kind of fan will buy anything with their favourites in it.
Is it also immoral to put out seven different X-books?

Depends. Does that character appear in every books? If so, yes. Wolverine has been exploited to the max to boost sale. Looking at numbers, when a fan favorite is featuring, there's way more sales. So, they're using popular characters to launch others and make more money, which is fine. But like you said, a small portion of people buy everything that has their favorite character in it, so there's something unethical about it if this technique is being used everywhere. If so, you're kinda abusing that kind of behaviour to make money.

Businesses have a moral obligation to use fair economic practices.

[Carabas]

Depends. Does that character appear in every books? If so, yes. Wolverine has been exploited to the max to boost sale. Looking at numbers, when a fan favorite is featuring, there's way more sales. So, they're using popular characters to launch others and make more money, which is fine. But like you said, a small portion of people buy everything that has their favorite character in it, so there's something unethical about it if this technique is being used everywhere. If so, you're kinda abusing that kind of behaviour to make money.

Businesses have a moral obligation to use fair economic practices.

Okay... How is it unfair? Do you believe wanting to collect something a kind of mental illness that renders a person incapable of having free will?

Is the very concept of collectibles immoral then?

[Magneto]

Okay... How is it unfair? Do you believe wanting to collect something a kind of mental illness that renders a person incapable of having free will?

Is the very concept of collectibles immoral then?

No, a collector can be 90-100% rational. I'm talking about the compulsive and impulsive ones. While not the majority, they're still there.

Also, about free will, there's plenty more variables to take into account. I remember doing a binomial regression 5 years ago. The research question was about consumers thinking they have full control over their purchases. Believe it or not, my model was flawed because I supposed that buyers were 100% rational. I had to take into account the theory of planned behavior to reajust my model (which worked thankfully).

Anyway, my point is free will isn't as present as we think it is. Subjective norms, perceived behavioral control and attitude toward ''x'' behavior are always present during a purchase. The variable mostly important in the current argument is perceived self-control. This is why there's compulsive and impulsive consumers. Businesses know that... trust me.

That's where the unethical practice happen. That's also why businesses have a moral obligation to use fair economic practices

[Iron Maiden]

Yeah, really. well, kind of really. Cable, Dr Strange, Deadpool, Black Panther have all had minis that were published when their regular books weren't being put out. At the very last, it can be said there appears to be NO set procedure for what is and what isn't cpunted.

And Punisher HAS counted minis, but Silver Suyrfer has not, EXCEPT for a single one-shot.

You were right that it wasn't usual procudure to skip minis but it's also not usual to count them either.

I think as a rule of thumb you can accept these rules for a comic old enough to have been round in Marvel's Silver Age. Using the Fantastic Four as an example but the same would apply to the X-Men or the Avengers

Annuals don't count in the numbering. Marvel still puts out annuals at times but it's not consistent as it was in the Silver age. During Lee and Kirby's run there were annuals that contained both original material and reprints. None of them counted as an issue number and they got a separate numbering There was annual #1, #2 and so on. They don't count toward the legacy issue number. I think the last FF annual I have is Annual #22 or thereabouts. Most of them weren't an What if kind of story and took place in the continuity of the time they were published.

Graphic novels are never counted either.

The Fantastic Four have had numerous mini series over the decades. None of those count in the legacy number.

[Star_Jammer]

A certain kind of fan will buy anything with their favourites in it.
Is it also immoral to put out seven different X-books?

It's immoral to not have my favorite characters featured, because goddamnit, I want to buy comic books featuring them!

You can't just create a character, make me like said character, and then NOT put the character in a book!

[Digifiend]

Do we know why they haven't Legacy Numbered "Champions"?

Probably because the original book has no connection to the current one. Defenders wasn't legacy numbered either.

[mrbrklyn]

Probably because the original book has no connection to the current one. Defenders wasn't legacy numbered either.

the number really has zero to do with continuity.

[Blunt Guy]

I have my collection in alphabetical order, mostly by the actual title name, but I have some by character. The frequent #1's across the board are a pain in the ass for me, simply because it seems like I'm always adding new divider tabs. I'll use Amazing Spider-Man as an example since it's a popular title and hasn't reached double digit relaunches yet. Volume 1 ran from 1963-1998 for 441 issues. The first relaunch was in 1998, went from 1-58, then to legacy numbering at 500, and ran until 2013 and #700. After that, the whole series changed to Superior Spider-Man for 31 issues, and in 2014, we got our third ASM #1. Vol 3 ran for 20 issues until 2015, when ASM #1 number four was released (with the same writer) and went 32 issues. At this point, issue 800 was getting close, so Vol 5 was started with #789, and ran to 801. So her we are in 2018, with the 5th ASM #1 (the third since 2014) officially known as volume 6. For a reader who doesn't know this info, the look of the 3 recent relaunches is similar enough that they would have difficulty matching the right issues together in a back issue bin. New readers don't know that all the info is in the indica, so it would be easy to pick up issues 4, 5, & 6 of three different volumes. It happens, and will only get worse with every new #1. ASM isn't even a clusterfuck compared to Iron Man and a few other titles. Only a fool would think this is healthy for the long term. Before long, every collector will need a guide to keep track of what is what.

[comicscollector]

Look at it from the perspective of a new reader trying to make sense of half a dozen old Punisher runs that do not have those legacy numbers.

And it is even harder with older trades.

Dunno,with the Internet it´s easy to find out the the right order of the characters stories.
If i managed to make sense of the stories of diferent comic books when i started Reading comics waaay back without the Internet i will assume that now with the Internet it´s even easier.
But speaking of numberings of the comic books i like that curently the Marvel comics have the original numbering in the cover.

[comicscollector]

You depended on the Overstreet Price guild and actually, you still need to depend on the Overstreet Price Guild to sort it all out.

I see.
But i started Reading comics in Portugal.So there was not Overstreet Price Guild or magazines to help me make sense of the comics i was Reading,Internet had not even been invented back then.
The comic books i was Reading were translated Marvel comics to Portuguese in 80 pages comic books.
So i would read about diferent characters in one pocket comic book,and in those comic books sometimes they had the original issue from where they came from published in small letters in the first page of the story and another times the stories did not even had that information.And sometimes the stories had to be cut of pages and/or pannels to fit in the 80 pages format of the comic book.Sometimes it even had a diferent colouring that from the original stories.
Thus why to me this issue of renumbering (especially now with the current Marvel comics keeping the original numbering in the covers) as something that with the Internet nowadays is a non issue imo.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

I have my collection in alphabetical order, mostly by the actual title name, but I have some by character. The frequent #1's across the board are a pain in the ass for me, simply because it seems like I'm always adding new divider tabs. I'll use Amazing Spider-Man as an example since it's a popular title and hasn't reached double digit relaunches yet. Volume 1 ran from 1963-1998 for 441 issues. The first relaunch was in 1998, went from 1-58, then to legacy numbering at 500, and ran until 2013 and #700. After that, the whole series changed to Superior Spider-Man for 31 issues, and in 2014, we got our third ASM #1. Vol 3 ran for 20 issues until 2015, when ASM #1 number four was released (with the same writer) and went 32 issues. At this point, issue 800 was getting close, so Vol 5 was started with #789, and ran to 801. So her we are in 2018, with the 5th ASM #1 (the third since 2014) officially known as volume 6. For a reader who doesn't know this info, the look of the 3 recent relaunches is similar enough that they would have difficulty matching the right issues together in a back issue bin. New readers don't know that all the info is in the indica, so it would be easy to pick up issues 4, 5, & 6 of three different volumes. It happens, and will only get worse with every new #1. ASM isn't even a clusterfuck compared to Iron Man and a few other titles. Only a fool would think this is healthy for the long term. Before long, every collector will need a guide to keep track of what is what.

K but why are we still complaining about the past when it has been fixed now. The only reason I see to continue to complain about this is if Marvel got rid of the legacy renumbering

[mrbrklyn]

I have my collection in alphabetical order, mostly by the actual title name, but I have some by character. The frequent #1's across the board are a pain in the ass for me, simply because it seems like I'm always adding new divider tabs. I'll use Amazing Spider-Man as an example since it's a popular title and hasn't reached double digit relaunches yet. Volume 1 ran from 1963-1998 for 441 issues. The first relaunch was in 1998, went from 1-58, then to legacy numbering at 500, and ran until 2013 and #700. After that, the whole series changed to Superior Spider-Man for 31 issues, and in 2014, we got our third ASM #1. Vol 3 ran for 20 issues until 2015, when ASM #1 number four was released (with the same writer) and went 32 issues. At this point, issue 800 was getting close, so Vol 5 was started with #789, and ran to 801. So her we are in 2018, with the 5th ASM #1 (the third since 2014) officially known as volume 6. For a reader who doesn't know this info,....

Or even for the read who does know this information, it is just too damn hard to keep it all straight and not worth the time to figure it all out..

[mrbrklyn]

I have my collection in alphabetical order, mostly by the actual title name, but I have some by character. The frequent #1's across the board are a pain in the ass for me, simply because it seems like I'm always adding new divider tabs. I'll use Amazing Spider-Man as an example since it's a popular title and hasn't reached double digit relaunches yet. Volume 1 ran from 1963-1998 for 441 issues. The first relaunch was in 1998, went from 1-58, then to legacy numbering at 500, and ran until 2013 and #700. After that, the whole series changed to Superior Spider-Man for 31 issues, and in 2014, we got our third ASM #1. Vol 3 ran for 20 issues until 2015, when ASM #1 number four was released (with the same writer) and went 32 issues. At this point, issue 800 was getting close, so Vol 5 was started with #789, and ran to 801. So her we are in 2018, with the 5th ASM #1 (the third since 2014) officially known as volume 6. For a reader who doesn't know this info, the look of the 3 recent relaunches is similar enough that they would have difficulty matching the right issues together in a back issue bin. New readers don't know that all the info is in the indica, so it would be easy to pick up issues 4, 5, & 6 of three different volumes. It happens, and will only get worse with every new #1. ASM isn't even a clusterfuck compared to Iron Man and a few other titles. Only a fool would think this is healthy for the long term. Before long, every collector will need a guide to keep track of what is what.

BTW - this is is ahuge problem also with Valiants and with the varient covers, I'm not sure what storyline I am picking up, only to find I picked up have the issues with different covrs on them in previous runs through the stacks.

It really sucks.

[mrbrklyn]

K but why are we still complaining about the past when it has been fixed now. The only reason I see to continue to complain about this is if Marvel got rid of the legacy renumbering

really. You should look closer. They made you a sucker.

[mrbrklyn]

Dunno,with the Internet it´s easy to find out the the right order of the characters stories.

No it is not. And the varient covers make things even worst.