So Secret Empire happened and Cap is back in the Avengers

[Knives]

It's best not to take this too seriously. If we think about the details, it is obvious that Steve and other heroes would have trouble with public opinion and government after so many wars between heroes or plots like Secret Empire.

Personally I have more problems with Carol and Stark being on the same team so soon after everything that happened in CWII but on the other hand maybe it's better to think that CWII never happened.

[Michael Watkins]

It's best not to take this too seriously. If we think about the details, it is obvious that Steve and other heroes would have trouble with public opinion and government after so many wars between heroes or plots like Secret Empire.

as revealed in the current Captain America run, there are towns that worship Stevil for the improvements that Hydra made to their personal situations.

[Knives]

as revealed in the current Captain America run, there are towns that worship Stevil for the improvements that Hydra made to their personal situations.

True but that does not change the fact that it was a coup d'état with arrests of politicians and civilians as well as a city being destroyed (before returning magically).

And let's not forget the invasions to foreign countries while the event happened.

For God's sake some of these heroes tried to kill each other a little while ago it would normally be impossible for people to trust or work together after that so it's not good to go too deep into it.

[Jabare]

I think that speaks to a few Marvel storylines quite a bit.

I don't think Marvel was expecting people would start really disliking Iron Man and Captain Marvel after the respective Civil Wars that had them as the "bad guys" even when they were written as making decisions or acting in a way that would very likely turn people against them.

I find that kind of mind boggling, but you see it all the time in comics. We saw it with Cyclops and so many characters. Heck you borderline see it with DC and Batman sometimes. I don't know if any writer has taken Batman to that extreme but some writers just make him a jerk. Fortunately usually movies and live action don't go down this route, because I think they realize audiences just wouldn't stand for it, or forgive those characters.

Ant-Man and the Wasp mini series starring Hank Pym and Eric O'Grady. A.I.M stole Pym's techno heaven with Bill's "soul" trapped inside. truthfully, there didn't seem to be anything heavenly about it. bill was wearing his retro costume with the exposed abs and high collar. none of his loved ones were there. I have no idea what a day for him would have looked like. anyways, it sparked an argument between Pym (an atheist) and O'Grady (apparently raised Catholic). I wonder if either character has changed their position. Hank is now trapped in the soul gem. and Eric is a digital consciousness.

ugh. I say a Reboot is in order

[Photon Torme]

I mean Marvel does this all the time

There are at least 30 characters that should never forgive Ironman after Civil War

Cyclops, Namor, Nick Fury the list goes on

Probably be better if that stop that imo.

[Jokerz79]

I hated Hydra Cap but it is ironic when other mediums do stories better Avengers EMH did Secret Invasion and the public didn't trust Cap afterwards even with knowledge it was a Skrull.

[Triniking1234]

That just means the cartoon had better writers.

[Cmbmool]

And as much of a hornet's nest as it is, both "Vs. X-Men" storylines with the Avengers in 2012 and then the Inhumans in 2017. While the X-Men were intended to be seen as the ones in the wrong, a fair amount of people came away hating (or at least resenting) both the Avengers and the Inhumans because of how negative or unheroic actions on their part in the name of defeating their opposition were more-or-less swept under the rug and fans/readers were expected to be ok with them being subsequently portrayed in a more heroic light. Somehow, Marvel didn't see that coming, either.

As for the Civil Wars, Iron Man's largely been forgiven by now, at least since we've had 10+ years to deal with and process what happened in the original Civil War and move on from there. Captain Marvel hasn't, largely because the wounds of Civil War II are still fresh, as it's been only two years since then, not to mention that the events there ended up propelling the events in Secret Empire, HYDRA-Cap tearing down an internally divided superhero community because to him, they were nothing but selfish powermongers who cared less about protecting ordinary people than they did about preserving and advancing their own position and status. Oh, and whereas so-called "nobodies" were the only major casualties of the original Civil War, Civil War II started off killing War Machine, nearly did the same to She-Hulk and Iron Man, and actually did kill off the Hulk (Bruce Banner), with Hulk's killer getting off scot-free and being viewed by the general public as a hero for it. All heroes with bigger names and caches with the comic-reading audience than the New Warriors and Bill Foster, sad as that calculus may be.

I’m never going to forgive Tony Stark for his actions in Civil War. Marvel should Always following through with the idea of the fallen hero in their comics. Not rebooted it to status quo.

[Thor-Ul]

And as much of a hornet's nest as it is, both "Vs. X-Men" storylines with the Avengers in 2012 and then the Inhumans in 2017. While the X-Men were intended to be seen as the ones in the wrong, a fair amount of people came away hating (or at least resenting) both the Avengers and the Inhumans because of how negative or unheroic actions on their part in the name of defeating their opposition were more-or-less swept under the rug and fans/readers were expected to be ok with them being subsequently portrayed in a more heroic light. Somehow, Marvel didn't see that coming, either.

Not every plan goes as planned. Remember that was the tiem when Marvel was trying to push down the X-men.

As for the Civil Wars, Iron Man's largely been forgiven by now, at least since we've had 10+ years to deal with and process what happened in the original Civil War and move on from there. Captain Marvel hasn't, largely because the wounds of Civil War II are still fresh, as it's been only two years since then, not to mention that the events there ended up propelling the events in Secret Empire, HYDRA-Cap tearing down an internally divided superhero community because to him, they were nothing but selfish powermongers who cared less about protecting ordinary people than they did about preserving and advancing their own position and status. Oh, and whereas so-called "nobodies" were the only major casualties of the original Civil War, Civil War II started off killing War Machine, nearly did the same to She-Hulk and Iron Man, and actually did kill off the Hulk (Bruce Banner), with Hulk's killer getting off scot-free and being viewed by the general public as a hero for it. All heroes with bigger names and caches with the comic-reading audience than the New Warriors and Bill Foster, sad as that calculus may be.

Don't forget than Ironman later passed through a redemption act, first falling from grace andlosing his position to Norman Osborn in Secret Invasion, becoming a fugitive, and erasing his own memory. In narrative terms, he was punished by his crimes. Now is the turn of Captain America for his redemption arc in Coates series.Is a different story, but basically, that is its function.

Now, in real life he should be rotting in prision for certain actions or be hated for certain characters, but even in real life you can't hate someone forever. In superhero comic books logic that should be enough.
Now there are other characters who are still being hated by events from long time ago and revisited again and again, depsite several redemption arcs or others who are promoted depiste their faults by reasons beyond storytelling. But that is other problem.

[theoneandonly]

lol

[Kuwagaton]

Lol that's pretty good.

Both Waid and Coates have had some considerable story beats to turn the ship around. Steve's"Weren't Mine" game is impenetrable.

[Michael Watkins]

Given what else the average Marvel civilian has experienced, I am not surprised that they are too jaded to hold a grudge against Cap. Keep in mind that Stevil had the news media churning out propaganda non-stop. Then add the drugged water supply and Faustus' influence. He wasn't that big of a transition from Norman Osborn being the top cop. HAMMER was brutal to the populace. The non powered were happy to have an authoritarian leader willing to murder the enemies of the United States. That's why Fisk is mayor. The people have been conditioned to cast aside morality and civil liberties.

[Digifiend]

Lol that's pretty good.

That page is from the Marvel Legacy one-shot revival of Not Brand Echh.

[Huntsman Spider]

Given what else the average Marvel civilian has experienced, I am not surprised that they are too jaded to hold a grudge against Cap. Keep in mind that Stevil had the news media churning out propaganda non-stop. Then add the drugged water supply and Faustus' influence. He wasn't that big of a transition from Norman Osborn being the top cop. HAMMER was brutal to the populace. The non powered were happy to have an authoritarian leader willing to murder the enemies of the United States. That's why Fisk is mayor. The people have been conditioned to cast aside morality and civil liberties.

Which is a rather brutally, even nihilistically misanthropic view of humanity as a whole, but it's one Marvel's been pushing for a long time, that most "normal people" will be all too glad to embrace despotism and tyranny if it means their own perceived security and prosperity and the destruction of those they see as existential threats to that security and prosperity. Sadly, given events around the world and even closer to home . . . it might not be all that invalid, but it's still pretty bleak for a genre that used to be about extolling the best of what we could be, rather than simply wallowing in the worst of what we are.

[Frontier]

I hated Hydra Cap but it is ironic when other mediums do stories better Avengers EMH did Secret Invasion and the public didn't trust Cap afterwards even with knowledge it was a Skrull.

Glad I'm not the only one to notice that .