So Secret Empire happened and Cap is back in the Avengers

[Naked Bat]

I wish I could forget about secret empire. I wish MArvel would stop with the events where the heroes are not acting like heroes. What I'm looking for when I read something by marvel or DC, is to have the heroes be heroic.

[Michael Watkins]

Which is a rather brutally, even nihilistically misanthropic view of humanity as a whole, but it's one Marvel's been pushing for a long time, that most "normal people" will be all too glad to embrace despotism and tyranny if it means their own perceived security and prosperity and the destruction of those they see as existential threats to that security and prosperity. Sadly, given events around the world and even closer to home . . . it might not be all that invalid, but it's still pretty bleak for a genre that used to be about extolling the best of what we could be, rather than simply wallowing in the worst of what we are.

Captain America is a hero because he rises above all of that. he fights for all of these kind of pitiful individuals.

[Photon Torme]

I wish I could forget about secret empire. I wish MArvel would stop with the events where the heroes are not acting like heroes. What I'm looking for when I read something by marvel or DC, is to have the heroes be heroic.

Me too. I liked that. Less Malaise. That seems like the right word.

[Michael Watkins]

I wish I could forget about secret empire. I wish MArvel would stop with the events where the heroes are not acting like heroes. What I'm looking for when I read something by marvel or DC, is to have the heroes be heroic.

Fear Itself was one of the worst events that I have read recently. and it was straight up good against evil.

[Huntsman Spider]

Captain America is a hero because he rises above all of that. he fights for all of these kind of pitiful individuals.

That's good. That is as perfect a definition of what a hero is as any I've seen. A hero is someone who rises above their own pettiness to do right by other people and the world around them.

[Kintor]

That's good. That is as perfect a definition of what a hero is as any I've seen. A hero is someone who rises above their own pettiness to do right by other people and the world around them.

In the old myths and legends a hero is neither good or evil but rather a figure of destiny. Someone who travels to and returns from the hidden world, bringing divine insights that permanently transform human society as the hero sees fit. To that end, Steve Rogers with Hydra in Secret Empire did more to complete a heroic cycle then he ever did before as the normal Captain America. But I suspect such distinctions are lost on Marvel, all those heroes in the same universe and none of them are able to change the world.

[XPac]

..... And that's just fine. Las Vegas in ruins. No More Pawn stars. Black Widow, "Dead" and ..... T'challa's concerned about the Us Govt's reaction to his being Leader? Whaaaaaa? Did Cap exonerate himself in court by proving that reality had been tampered with by a sentient Cosmic Cube. All the other Avengers are fine with Cap on the Roster? Steve doesn't figure that now might be a good time for another Name and Costume change?? I don't keep up with the books as much as I once did. So if there are holes or mis conceptions in my ramblings, please forgive me. Oh.... Cap IS back on The Avengers roster, right? . That would be so embarrassing now if he isn't it. I vote for a less bulky She Hulk asap.

The Steve that did all that is in jail. The Steve presently on the Avengers didn't do any of that.

[Cmbmool]

I enjoyed the idea of Secret Empire, but I dislike how the story ended. I feel like it would have been more interesting to have it be one Captain America dealing with his actions and consequences rather than 2.

Because to me, the current Captain America is a fake version with all of his original morals.

[Vishop]

In the old myths and legends a hero is neither good or evil but rather a figure of destiny. Someone who travels to and returns from the hidden world, bringing divine insights that permanently transform human society as the hero sees fit. To that end, Steve Rogers with Hydra in Secret Empire did more to complete a heroic cycle then he ever did before as the normal Captain America. But I suspect such distinctions are lost on Marvel, all those heroes in the same universe and none of them are able to change the world.

After Civil War , Marvel's plethora of using heroes vs heroes has really dampened the quality of comics over the last few years but idt that what Nick Spencer portrayed Cap as an agent of Hydra was bad , in fact it really came through my expectations of what i initially expecting this as a bad idea. The idea of making him as a person who believed in freedom and liberty had reflected through this Secret Empire arc in a way which totally contradict the ethics which Cap believed but in the end the agendas of using this type of comics excessively had made really a negative impact on comics .

But i must say Spencer's Steve Rogers was way better than Taylor's Injustice Superman in comics which was totally unnatural due to how Taylor deconstructed(or ruined to be precise) the character in Injustice comics ...................

[tliscord]

Steve got separated from Stevil. Stevil is the one who was arrested and has been imprisoned. They've got their scapegoat, and they can pretend that a bunch of heroes and government officials weren't also involved.

The final omega issue tangentially addresses some of this. Agree, Kobik’s Steve is in prison, our Steve visits him and of course as we’ve seen writers do before the issue rests on the summation of the two protagonists’ viewpoints ( remember Cap and Tony).

Waid’s following iteration seemed to start strong by addressing the court of opinion as Steve motorcycles across the country, but in my view quickly veered off that topic.

I’m quite hopeful Coates and Yu will tackle the outcome of Secret Empire more directly and thoroughly. Aaron up to this point in his Avengers has avoided any tension about Steve being back in the Avengers. I find that surprising given Steve’s own inclinations for self examination.

Despite finding Spencer’s story not my cup of tea, there certainly is a lot of richness to mine left to other writers... it’d be a shame not to do so.

[Triniking1234]

I enjoyed the concept of Secret Empire; Red Skull using the Cube to turn Steve into HYDRA instead of outright killing seems like something he would do. However the story was too close to Superior Spidey and AXIS so the "Steve was HYDRA all along" aspect and the Nazi paranoia of today caused it to be ill-received.

Plus the ending was corny. Geez.

[XPac]

I enjoyed the idea of Secret Empire, but I dislike how the story ended. I feel like it would have been more interesting to have it be one Captain America dealing with his actions and consequences rather than 2.

Because to me, the current Captain America is a fake version with all of his original morals.

Problem being it's not necessarily ideal to have a story about a character sitting in a jail cell. There's only so much you can do in that environment.

[ed2962]

Problem being it's not necessarily ideal to have a story about a character sitting in a jail cell. There's only so much you can do in that environment.

I'd argue there's A LOT you could do with that premise. The question is, does Marvel want to take an IP that they farm out to movies and children's merchandise and make it into "Oz" or "Caged Heat" permanently?

[Michael Watkins]

I enjoyed the concept of Secret Empire; Red Skull using the Cube to turn Steve into HYDRA instead of outright killing seems like something he would do. However the story was too close to Superior Spidey and AXIS so the "Steve was HYDRA all along" aspect and the Nazi paranoia of today caused it to be ill-received.

Plus the ending was corny. Geez.

i'm convinced that the ending is the product of the fan hate "mail." someone told Spencer to wrap things up before he was ready. and that resulted in a comic book stock ending.

[Michael Watkins]

p.s. they never explained who or what Elisa Donovan was. how do you handwash away some kind of magical netherbeast masquerading as Steve Rogers surrogate mother? keep in mind that she was a powerful enough sorceress to alter Odin's enchantment of Mjolnir. there was sooo much story that we didn't get.