Which characters have been most hurt by origin tweaks?

[ed2962]

Wolverine was kind of ruined by giving him an origin period. He was such a better character when his origin was a mystery. Let's not even talk about that horrible Loeb story about Wolverine being some wolf mutant.

Add in Nightcrawler too. That useless retcon about his father being some ancient demon mutant did nothing to advance the character.

I think I read that Joe Q or somebody said back then that they knew that the movie people wanted to do the origin of Wolverine in an upcoming film. So they decided they'd better do a version in the comics first.

[ed2962]

Not sure if her origin tweaks hurts her, but Carol Danver's history is really convoluted.

A comparable DC character is probably Hawkman. And as others have mentioned Donna Troy even moreso that Wonder Woman.

[kilderkin]

I recognize the issues with the retcon. That being said, I do think there are some positives. It makes Mjolnir all that more unique. There are other Uru hammers in the universe, but Mjolnir can never be replicated, even by Odin.

He did indeed make an equal of it in Stormbreaker hence why I really disliked what it did to its relationship to odin even more so

but you are correct in that it does increase its unique quality

[Nazrel]

I don't no about hurt, but the non-sequitur declaration that X-23 is genetically 50% Sarah Kinney at the end of the Adamantium agenda, makes no sense, has no explanation, has no promise of explanation, and seems to be completely pointless.

Sarah Kinney was hired by Sutter to in his own words "provide them with the original specimen"
They were attempting the cloning with a damaged, but mostly intact DNA sample, with most of the damage being in the Y chromosome, which they were fixing by mapping the damaged areas to wolverines genome and rebuilding it on the most basic level.
Sutter made it clear he wanted no deviations from the original specimen, when the one deviation that did happen was was proposed, that of duplicating the existing X chromosome, which was done for the explicit purpose of bypassing the genetic damage while still ending up with a genetic duplicate. (Technically genetic twin, not clone)
Add on the somewhat misogynistic attitudes expressed in that conversation.
Add the fact if there was no problem just splicing in foreign DNA, it defeats the point of making her female in the first place.

Then there's the mess of personal issues Sarah Kinney would have had with combining her own DNA into the project.

It also undermines any themes of X-23 grappling with her nature as she has been provided with the external validation of being a "real girl" now; and the themes of her current ongoing which seems to be focusing on her existence as a clone.

It's just completely incompatible on every level.

[Kuwagaton]

I have to say Wolverine is poster boy. Hama did very well, much of the time in concert with Lobdell, Nicieza, and so on. But Wolverine's convoluted memory was always a trip hazard. But the time it had been mined a few times over, we got James Howlett, the angel of death, uh... Dog people ...

[Nazrel]

I have to say Wolverine is poster boy. Hama did very well, much of the time in concert with Lobdell, Nicieza, and so on. But Wolverine's convoluted memory was always a trip hazard. But the time it had been mined a few times over, we got James Howlett, the angel of death, uh... Dog people ...

Ahhh, wolverine...



There is a reason I have lost all capacity to give a #@$% about that character.

[SuperiorIronman]

Ghost Rider because post international Ghost Riders it stopped making sense.

Zarathos and Noble Kale are emulations but objects of power can store spirits of vengeance or spirits can be formed into Spirits of Vengeance. Simple. A little complicated but it works.

Now Spirits of Vengeance happen, just because? I have no idea and Mephisto nor a Satanist should be able to just be a GR.

[Kusanagi]

Wolverine easily. Origin was passable, I didn't find it great, but it wasn't awful. The angel of death fights were terrible though, and I would really like the ability to block all that Romulus crap from my memory.

[Noek]

Star-Lord's messy history...
https://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an...n-exactly/amp/

Oh definitely Star Lord

[Zero Hunter]

Ghost Rider because post international Ghost Riders it stopped making sense.

Zarathos and Noble Kale are emulations but objects of power can store spirits of vengeance or spirits can be formed into Spirits of Vengeance. Simple. A little complicated but it works.

Now Spirits of Vengeance happen, just because? I have no idea and Mephisto nor a Satanist should be able to just be a GR.

Oh man poor Ghost Rider. It is just a steaming pile of confusion at this point. The whole Noble Kale stuff was not great to begin with, but everything after that has just been so bad.

[Mike_Murdock]

Star-Lord's messy history...
https://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an...n-exactly/amp/

Marvel Wiki lists the original Star-Lord and the current Star-Lord as from different universes.

[Thor-Ul]

Marvel Wiki lists the original Star-Lord and the current Star-Lord as from different universes.

In the long run, that doesn't works. Specially if you mix universes usually.

[Immortal Weapon]

Ghost Rider because post international Ghost Riders it stopped making sense.

Zarathos and Noble Kale are emulations but objects of power can store spirits of vengeance or spirits can be formed into Spirits of Vengeance. Simple. A little complicated but it works.

Now Spirits of Vengeance happen, just because? I have no idea and Mephisto nor a Satanist should be able to just be a GR.

Didn't the last Johnny Blaze series turn him into an angel?

[MyriVerse]

I recognize the issues with the retcon. That being said, I do think there are some positives. It makes Mjolnir all that more unique. There are other Uru hammers in the universe, but Mjolnir can never be replicated, even by Odin.

Meh. It could be replaced and improved upon... like everything else.

[davetvs]

Quicksilver + Scarlet Witch are the only characters whose retcons are actually annoying and damage stories involving them for me. Even if they just set their parents as Natalya + Magneto, that'd be fine, but trying to erase him from their lineage takes away some of what makes them interesting (and makes House of M, Decimation, etc. pointless.)