Which characters have been most hurt by origin tweaks?

[MyriVerse]

Quicksilver + Scarlet Witch are the only characters whose retcons are actually annoying and damage stories involving them for me. Even if they just set their parents as Natalya + Magneto, that'd be fine, but trying to erase him from their lineage takes away some of what makes them interesting (and makes House of M, Decimation, etc. pointless.)

I'm of the opposite opinion in that their connection to Magneto only cheapened them (and Our Lord Magneto). It made them much flakier as Avengers.

But I wish they'd retained their mutancy. I prefer Wanda's codename to be more ironic than literal.

[chamber-music]

Iron Man wasn't broken

The recent additions to Tony Stark's background are convoluted and unnecessary.

[krazijoe]

Beyonder
Venom.

[pageturner]

Sue Storm suddenly getting the force field powers by Byrne (i think it was Byrne)

Hulk multiple tweaks to the way he changes and into what.

The third Summers brother.

[Carabas]

Sue Storm suddenly getting the force field powers by Byrne (i think it was Byrne).

Can you put into words how that hurt the character a lot?

[cc008]

The recent additions to Tony Stark's background are convoluted and unnecessary.

One thousand percent agreed.

[Vishop]

Wolverine was kind of ruined by giving him an origin period. He was such a better character when his origin was a mystery. Let's not even talk about that horrible Loeb story about Wolverine being some wolf mutant.

Add in Nightcrawler too. That useless retcon about his father being some ancient demon mutant did nothing to advance the character.

Can't say about Loeb's run , it was badly written i must say but Way's Origins was one the Wolverine's past which defined him as how much he had changed in terms of terms of honor and responsibility or choices . I mean it defined him as a character so that that he had to overcome his own demons and sins that he has done before by avenging himself of who he was .......... Not many characters on MU or DCU had is so much dark due to their past . It could also be said about Magneto as well..........

[Mike_Murdock]

Sue Storm suddenly getting the force field powers by Byrne (i think it was Byrne)

I don't believe that's correct. I believe that's an innovation that was much earlier than people remember.

I don't have the energy to go back to see when it first appeared, but it definitely was in Fantastic Four #100 by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

[responsarbre]

The two Black Widow miniseries written in 04-05 by Richard K Morgan had some pretty bad and nonsensical origin changes, most notable among them being the idea that Natasha was raised from childhood in the Red Room. There was also the idea being thrown about that Natasha only defected to the West because Nick Fury stole mind-control cologne from the Soviets and used it on Natasha, among other things.

The changes were bad for Black Widow for a lot of reasons; they didn't mesh at all with basically any established characters, events, or character traits in Natasha's past and the only attempt given to reconcile them was the explanation that her happy childhood memories of being a ballerina were fake. (They really only make sense if you view those miniseries as being noncanonical ... which they kind of seem to be based on the way that they felt completely detached from everything happening at the time, the supporting hero cameos were all wildly out-of-character, and that it seemed to vaguely take place in the future.)

I have a lot of bones to pick with those changes in general, but the most annoying thing to me is that they strip away story potential from her character instead of creating it. Instead of having a lot of different life experiences and specific interests that combined to make her a well-rounded character, her personal growth and formation is stunted because she spent her entire childhood in a cage. They also seem to lead to Natasha's physical skills being emphasized over her interpersonal/manipulation skills. The tapestry of her life turns really bland and boring, because you take one element and blow it up to cover the entirety of her life, erasing the potential to do any kind of story about her past that doesn't tie back into the Red Room.

I'm mostly miffed about it because the Black Widow origin mini did away with the broad strokes of the Morgan retcons, but they've been crawling back into recent stories (assumingly since the MCU seems to be using the Morgan origin as the basis for their Natasha).

[davew128]

I don't believe that's correct. I believe that's an innovation that was much earlier than people remember.

I don't have the energy to go back to see when it first appeared, but it definitely was in Fantastic Four #100 by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

Gosh this goes to back almost to the beginning. I want to say FF #5. I know she had the force field when they first encountered the Hulk in FF#12.

[Sutekh]

But I wish they'd retained their mutancy. I prefer Wanda's codename to be more ironic than literal.

Ditto.

Had Wanda started developing her magical skills back in the Marvel Handbook days, when Marvel universe magic was quantified and included very specific spells and abilities (Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, Winds of Watoomb, Images of Ikonn, Shields of the Seraphim, Bolts of Bedevilment, and various abilities analogous to psychic abilities of telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection), then sure, I'd be up for someone being both mutant *and* magician.

But these days, when 'magic' is just 'yesterday I could teleport entire teams across time, space and dimensions, and today I can't, because Bendis wants us all to have a boring talking heads debate on the Quinjet again', and the only constant is that the writer-of-the-minute neither knows or cares what the magician character can or cannot do, then I'd rather Wanda be kept the hell away from it and just stick to being a mutant with bad luck bolts (and none of this junky pulled-out-of-someone's-butt chaos magic or reality manipulation).

Bad luck bolts was a pretty awesome power. She could give cause the floor to collapse beneath you, the ceiling to collapse above you, your gun to misfire, a car to swerve out of control and hit you, a power line to snap and fall on you, a steam explosion to occur beneath or beside you, an unmanned SHIELD surveillance drone to plummet out of the sky onto your head, or, failing any technology anywhere near you that could fail, you to just have a muscle cramp or even a stroke! According to the Marvel Handbook, she had practiced to the point that she could reliably control the results of her hexes for *hours* straight, so no 'accidentally' giving someone a stroke, either! But no, apparently that sort of awesome power wasn't good enough, so she had to be given reality manipulation, which was a crazy power that the writers didn't want her to actually *use* (imagine if she said 'No more cancer?' 'No more racism?' 'No more war?' 'No more poverty?' 'No more incursions?' 'No more superheroes fighting other superheroes?' Total madness! She could end any boring crossover event with three words! And so she had to be made crazy, because nobody wanted her to actually use that stupid power as a hero.).

Wanda (and Pietro) absolutely should still be mutants, with their original mutant powers.

[JudicatorPrime]

Ghost Rider is really definitely hurt by origin tweaks. That is why I am no longer interested in Ghost Rider.

All the Marvel Characters can't even compare to Wonder Woman who was recently revealed not to be made of clay but daughter of Zeus. She's also got a twin brother as well.

Well, if Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus, she's got a sh**load of half siblings running around, including Heracles and Ares. Ahhh, to be an indestructible fly on the wall at Thanksgiving dinner...or the Olympian equivalent.

Speaking of DC's Hercules/Heracles, I wonder if Shazam/Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman have ever discusses the fact that he gets his strength from her villainous half brother.

[JudicatorPrime]

Did I read somewhere that NorthStar and Aurora aren't mutants, but elves of some kind?

On another note, a character whose origin that I'd probably continue to tweak is Maddy Pryor.

[JudicatorPrime]

I recognize the issues with the retcon. That being said, I do think there are some positives. It makes Mjolnir all that more unique. There are other Uru hammers in the universe, but Mjolnir can never be replicated, even by Odin.

It's just a matter of time before someone retcons the retcon to establish that the being within Mjolnir is actually Thor's future godhead place there by Odin, or an Alternate Universe Rune King Thor bound in uru for the sake of the Asgard. Anything to confuse and bewilder.

[MaximoffTrash]

Quicksilver + Scarlet Witch are the only characters whose retcons are actually annoying and damage stories involving them for me. Even if they just set their parents as Natalya + Magneto, that'd be fine, but trying to erase him from their lineage takes away some of what makes them interesting (and makes House of M, Decimation, etc. pointless.)

The only loss with removing Magneto is messing up Nights of Wundagore. House of M can go to hell.