Which characters have been most hurt by origin tweaks?

[pageturner]

I don't believe that's correct. I believe that's an innovation that was much earlier than people remember.

I don't have the energy to go back to see when it first appeared, but it definitely was in Fantastic Four #100 by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

could be I am far from a completist.

[Mike_Murdock]

could be I am far from a completist.

So why are you saying it was a retcon that hurt the character?

[pageturner]

So why are you saying it was a retcon that hurt the character?

I was referring to who should be credited not the change.

[Mike_Murdock]

Someone said it first happened in issue three. It certainly happened early.

[pageturner]

Someone said it first happened in issue three. It certainly happened early.

as I recall it went she could become invisible she could make others things invisible and eventually the force fields which got stronger in time.

[Rumble]

Marvel should have used Secret Wars to bring over ultimate Nick Fury instead of sticking with Marcus Johnson.

Yea they dropped the ball on that one. Bringing in Sam Jack Fury seemed as much a no brainer as bringing in Miles tbh

And it would've been fun to see Ultimate Fury with his history having to then interact with the various 616 iterations

[Holt]

Son of M even more so because the themes are whether Pietro is becoming his father in going to unforgiveable extremes to save his people.

I expect with the merger happening next year, that plot thread may be restored. Remender may have unintentionally left an escape hatch at the very end of his High Evolutionary arc.

[jetengine]

Yea they dropped the ball on that one. Bringing in Sam Jack Fury seemed as much a no brainer as bringing in Miles tbh

And it would've been fun to see Ultimate Fury with his history having to then interact with the various 616 iterations

I'd disagree. Sam Jackson fury was a massive *******. At least Marcus lets us build him from the ground up.

[Mike_Murdock]

I expect with the merger happening next year, that plot thread may be restored. Remender may have unintentionally left an escape hatch at the very end of his High Evolutionary arc.

I still haven't had a chance to read that story. That being said, an easy retcon of this retcon is to say that Scarlet Witch altered reality to make them no longer mutants. An ideal story would find a way to incorporate everything rather than throwing out the new and replacing it with the old - in particular, there's a lot with Scarlet Witch that's been done recently.

[Rumble]

I'd disagree. Sam Jackson fury was a massive *******. At least Marcus lets us build him from the ground up.

I found Marcus's origin story to be cringeworthy and an instant turn off

[ed2962]

Did I read somewhere that NorthStar and Aurora aren't mutants, but elves of some kind?

On another note, a character whose origin that I'd probably continue to tweak is Maddy Pryor.

Yeah, that story is pretty much ignored these days. Basically, it was the 80's and while it was understood in the office that John Bryne considered Northstar as gay, it was something they couldn't show openly on the page. Bill Mantlo took over and was going to do a story where Northstar got AIDS, would out himself and then die. Bill started showing Northstar being sick but when EiC Jim Shooter learned where Bill was taking the story, he put a stop to it. So the last minute fix was that Northstar was some sort fairy and that he got sick because he'd been away from the magic fairyland too long.

[Mike_Murdock]

And, honestly, the "he's not gay, he's just a fairy" thing feels like one of the most problematic ideas in all of comics.

[ed2962]

And, honestly, the "he's not gay, he's just a fairy" thing feels like one of the most problematic ideas in all of comics.

Yeah, I almost wonder if he did it on purpose

[milton75]

Ditto.

Had Wanda started developing her magical skills back in the Marvel Handbook days, when Marvel universe magic was quantified and included very specific spells and abilities (Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, Winds of Watoomb, Images of Ikonn, Shields of the Seraphim, Bolts of Bedevilment, and various abilities analogous to psychic abilities of telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection), then sure, I'd be up for someone being both mutant *and* magician.

But these days, when 'magic' is just 'yesterday I could teleport entire teams across time, space and dimensions, and today I can't, because Bendis wants us all to have a boring talking heads debate on the Quinjet again', and the only constant is that the writer-of-the-minute neither knows or cares what the magician character can or cannot do, then I'd rather Wanda be kept the hell away from it and just stick to being a mutant with bad luck bolts (and none of this junky pulled-out-of-someone's-butt chaos magic or reality manipulation).

Bad luck bolts was a pretty awesome power. She could give cause the floor to collapse beneath you, the ceiling to collapse above you, your gun to misfire, a car to swerve out of control and hit you, a power line to snap and fall on you, a steam explosion to occur beneath or beside you, an unmanned SHIELD surveillance drone to plummet out of the sky onto your head, or, failing any technology anywhere near you that could fail, you to just have a muscle cramp or even a stroke! According to the Marvel Handbook, she had practiced to the point that she could reliably control the results of her hexes for *hours* straight, so no 'accidentally' giving someone a stroke, either! But no, apparently that sort of awesome power wasn't good enough, so she had to be given reality manipulation, which was a crazy power that the writers didn't want her to actually *use* (imagine if she said 'No more cancer?' 'No more racism?' 'No more war?' 'No more poverty?' 'No more incursions?' 'No more superheroes fighting other superheroes?' Total madness! She could end any boring crossover event with three words! And so she had to be made crazy, because nobody wanted her to actually use that stupid power as a hero.).

Wanda (and Pietro) absolutely should still be mutants, with their original mutant powers.

Wow. I pretty much agree with all of that.

[Triniking1234]

It's a minor nitpick since the characters are dead but in Runaways Vol. 4 they stated that Molly's parents were adopted siblings. That's really weird.