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  1. #1
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    Default Star Trek: All of Em

    So, spinning out of this dead thread that you wont be able to see in a couple of weeks...
    http://oldforums.comicbookresources....Trek-TNG/page8

    I'm watching more of TNG, I have some questions. First, while I'm still not particulary interested in the other characters (Though Data as Sherlock Holmes was fun, even if they did got some things wrong in their ''exact duplicate'') I really like Picard. He seems like he would have been a great role model for kids and teens watching back then and it's a privilage I wish I had. Also I saw that gay episode (Outcast) and while anvilicious for today's standards it's kind of ballsy for the 1980's family friendly show, kind of cool that even 30 years later Roddenberry was still ahead of his time.

    But: Why are kids in the Enterprise? Even as an exploratory vessel that's hugely irresponsable.
    And what exactly is Troi's job? I get she is an empath, which leads to her stating the obvious a lot (I feel that guy with the frowny face is angry, Captain) but she mostly seems to act as a Space Psychologist, which while cool, doesn't seem to justify her position on the bridge.


    There are already a couple of answers there... but this is to get the conversation going.

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    Junior Member Frog_Girl's Avatar
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    I was recently rewatching the show too. I notice during dangerous situations they don't show any children around, unless the plot is about the children being in danger. Troi became a kind of lie detector after awhile, but most of the time it didn't seem like her job was related to being on the bridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frog_Girl View Post
    I was recently rewatching the show too. I notice during dangerous situations they don't show any children around, unless the plot is about the children being in danger. Troi became a kind of lie detector after awhile, but most of the time it didn't seem like her job was related to being on the bridge.
    Maybe She's there to help in negotiations, thinking back, facial expressions for the species in Earth vary greatly, they are practically the opposite in some cases, particulary in Happiness vs Agression (The way Chimps show anger is sometimes confused as a laugh or a smile by the uneducated, for example and they are like 95% us), it should be worse for interplanetary negotiations...

    Then again most aliens look and behave exactly like humans...

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    Junior Member Frog_Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    Maybe She's there to help in negotiations, thinking back, facial expressions for the species in Earth vary greatly, they are practically the opposite in some cases, particulary in Happiness vs Agression (The way Chimps show anger is sometimes confused as a laugh or a smile by the uneducated, for example and they are like 95% us), it should be worse for interplanetary negotiations...

    Then again most aliens look and behave exactly like humans...
    That's the thing with Troi, there are legitimate reasons for the things she does, like being on the bridge all the time or not wearing a uniform, but the show never really addresses it. In situations where her empathic powers could come in handy, they either aren't working or she's not around. Instead of running into aliens that express emotions differently, every species is basically the same as humans but with a funny hat. I've also seen fan interpretations that a counselor might choose not to wear a uniform (at least during sessions) because it might trigger PTSD or remind someone of their difference in rank and make it difficult to speak openly with her. I don't think it's ever explained in the show why she doesn't wear a uniform until some point in the series she just switches over. I know I read an interview with Marina Sirtis saying she only dressed that way to add sex appeal to the show. She wasn't too happy about it either.

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    Veteran Member PretenderNX01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    But: Why are kids in the Enterprise? Even as an exploratory vessel that's hugely irresponsable.
    I don't see it as too far out there. It's basically a floating military base so having families aboard makes sense. They didn't seek out strife or war, so they weren't purposefully endangering kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    And what exactly is Troi's job? I get she is an empath, which leads to her stating the obvious a lot (I feel that guy with the frowny face is angry, Captain) but she mostly seems to act as a Space Psychologist, which while cool, doesn't seem to justify her position on the bridge.
    I've heard some explain that it was a 1990s thing, to have the psychiatrist as part of the crew but I don't think other ships had their counselor on the bridge so I think classifying her as living lie-detector is accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog_Girl View Post
    I don't think it's ever explained in the show why she doesn't wear a uniform until some point in the series she just switches over. I know I read an interview with Marina Sirtis saying she only dressed that way to add sex appeal to the show. She wasn't too happy about it either.
    They weren't consistent with her character. The first season she wore a uniform but the mini-dress version. Then she was in her own purple getup, I guess to separate her from the hierarchy but then they wanted her to be a part of it and they put her in a standard uniform we find she has the rank of commander.

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    Think Picard was probably quite lenient in Troi's uniform. In the episode "Chain of Command" , the new captain who took over told her off and asked her to dress appropriately in a Starfleet uniform.

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    Deep Space Nine is my favorite Trek series.

    I'm working on rewatching both TNG and Voyager, slowly but surely.

    And thought it isn't TV, I'm a big fan of all the post series books that have been published.
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    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    I'm watching more of TNG, I have some questions. First, while I'm still not particulary interested in the other characters (Though Data as Sherlock Holmes was fun, even if they did got some things wrong in their ''exact duplicate'') I really like Picard. He seems like he would have been a great role model for kids and teens watching back then and it's a privilage I wish I had.
    LOVE Picard. My favourite captain (and hands down the best actor out of the captains)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    Also I saw that gay episode (Outcast) and while anvilicious for today's standards it's kind of ballsy for the 1980's family friendly show, kind of cool that even 30 years later Roddenberry was still ahead of his time.
    Meh. 2014 and still no main character has ever been LGBT. The metaphor was nice back then, but that momentum should have continued, rather than remained nothing but a metaphor (or something only "dark mirror universe people do"). What made them ground-breaking originally wasn't metaphors for a multi-racial cast, but actually having a multi-racial cast. It wasn't a metaphor for an interracial kiss, it was an actual interracial kiss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    But: Why are kids in the Enterprise? Even as an exploratory vessel that's hugely irresponsable.
    I know they discuss that several times; esp. in Yesterday's Enterprise Guinan says the ship should have children on it.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 05-03-2014 at 05:23 AM.

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    Veteran Member Mari's Avatar
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    Data is my favorite character, it's interesting to watch and think of how we would be if we had an android among us, working alongside us. I learn a lot from Picard, his leadership style is a perfect model to copy, mostly.

    About children on the Enterprise... that is interesting to think about. The best answer I would think of is that crew spend years away from home while serving on the Enterprise, so they have the option to have their family with them. And the Enterprise is not primarily supposed to be a warship or peacekeeper, though it seems to end up into that role anyway.

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    Spectacular Member LASERlips's Avatar
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    Picard was incredible--I loved that series, and watching the crew become a family over the years, including Picard. Troi, on the other hand, I always found kind of silly.

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    Troi is OK, but the idea of children aboard a starship was just silly.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    LOVE Picard. My favourite captain (and hands down the best actor out of the captains)
    While I really like Picard, my favorite is still Shatner's Kirk. I'm a big fan of Shatner in general, he was in two of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes (which I did grew up with and rewatch a lot) and he was the best in Boston Legal, which which would probably be like in my top 3 favorite shows, if I ever do such list. And, while sometimes hammy, he is amazing in some TOS episodes. Particulary in Conscience of a King, possibly my favorite TOS episode and the one that established the criminally under represented fact that Kirk was a holocaust survivor (not that holocaust but a holocaust in a space colony that happened when he was 15) and that informed a lot of his decisions in later episodes.

    Meh. 2014 and still no main character has ever been LGBT. The metaphor was nice back then, but that momentum should have continued, rather than remained nothing but a metaphor (or something only "dark mirror universe people do"). What made them ground-breaking originally wasn't metaphors for a multi-racial cast, but actually having a multi-racial cast. It wasn't a metaphor for an interracial kiss, it was an actual interracial kiss.
    You know, I think that had Roddenberry lived long enough (and was of good health) he would've added an LGBT character to TNG or DS9. The first gay kiss on TV should've been done in TNG or DS9 and not in Will and Grace, all they needed was someone with the balls to stand up to Paramount like Gene did to NBC and make it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by PretenderNX01 View Post
    I don't see it as too far out there. It's basically a floating military base so having families aboard makes sense. They didn't seek out strife or war, so they weren't purposefully endangering kids.
    Well, it would be different if they were kids on the DS9, but the Enterprise navigates in uncharted territory, as far as they knew, it could all be a war zone. It would like soldiers shipping with their families to Irak or Afganistan.

    I've heard some explain that it was a 1990s thing, to have the psychiatrist as part of the crew but I don't think other ships had their counselor on the bridge so I think classifying her as living lie-detector is accurate.
    That makes sense, though as a psychologist I can't help to think that her time in the bridge might hamper her work as a councelour for the rest of the crew.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Lantern wannabe View Post
    Troi is OK, but the idea of children aboard a starship was just silly.
    Sirtis is great but the character is kind of useless

  14. #14
    Tin Man MikeP's Avatar
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    Love TNG, and DS9. Two best series in the franchise.

    Yes, Troi was the ships counselor, but her job was to state the obvious. So she ended up pretty useless.

    My favorite character was probably Data. Picard was a good character, when he didn't have hard on for the Prime Directive. "yes, this planet will explode, killing everyone on it. Clearly, the enlightened and moral thing to do is let them all die!" Seriously?
    Life is but a dream

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    Most of the captains are fairly rigid when it comes to prime directive. Worst was probably Katherine Janeaway in Voyager but when it comes to servicing her own needs , she certainly has no problem doing so especially at the end with the deus ex machine plot device to get the voyager back to earth. (though that was a future janeaway)

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