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  1. #781
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    As much as I don't want another time traveling Trek, more Kelvin would be nice.

    And I hope that new female alien from Beyond is Chekov's replacement. I enjoyed the character. And I hope they give Chekhov a nice goodbye like he is a teacher or something.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 10-14-2020 at 03:27 PM.
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  2. #782
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    So the logo for Discovery season 3 looks like a mix of the mid-90s "negative" starfleet symbol and a little bit of the Borg logo.
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  3. #783
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    Star Trek has had a lot of different rank insignia over the years. I've got to say, I'm partial to the original.

    They're less tied to US/UK Navy, and easier to read than most, especially easier than the "straightline" stripes used in the Kelvin-verse and Disc.

    You?

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  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Star Trek has had a lot of different rank insignia over the years. I've got to say, I'm partial to the original.

    They're less tied to US/UK Navy, and easier to read than most, especially easier than the "straightline" stripes used in the Kelvin-verse and Disc.

    You?

    star-trek-rank-insignias.jpg
    I like those and the TNG the best.
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  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    As a whole I like the movies, but a major reason to have them is to show adventures that would be too big for television, and the lines have been blurring for decades now. Even the biggest scale stories weren't the movies, they've been on tv since TNG. TMP's big problem was that it was a tv show script. Generations and Insurrection were pretty low stakes. The Abrams movies had the polish of excellent special effects but not quite the imagination to use them like their contemporaries.

    I would say, though, that I'd want one last outing with the Abrams cast. The quality of the movies is in no way their fault, and they deserve a last hurrah.
    Agreed and co-signed!!!

    Personally in enjoyed the TNG movies even better than Abramverse despite the latter having better cg.

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    As a whole I like the movies, but a major reason to have them is to show adventures that would be too big for television, and the lines have been blurring for decades now. Even the biggest scale stories weren't the movies, they've been on tv since TNG. TMP's big problem was that it was a tv show script. Generations and Insurrection were pretty low stakes. The Abrams movies had the polish of excellent special effects but not quite the imagination to use them like their contemporaries.

    I would say, though, that I'd want one last outing with the Abrams cast. The quality of the movies is in no way their fault, and they deserve a last hurrah.
    IMO, the films worked best as closure stories, telling the kind of tales you couldn't put on the screen if there's a next week or next season to worry about. It's the reason I prefer both Generations, and Nemesis over First Contact, even tho the latter is the better adventure than either of the other two.

  7. #787
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think part of the reason the TOS movies generally jell better than the TNG ones is that they kind of have an arc of Kirk and his crew aging and sometimes moving on but eventually getting back to where they're meant to be-with him back as Captain. It's pretty much a lot of what TWOK is about, but there's also the theme of it in most of the sequels too (Even Generations touches on it a bit, Kirk has again retired and is missing being in command yet again).


    We even get a little bit of this in the Abrams films, Kirk is offered an Admiral promotion in Beyond but turns it down by the end of the film to remain as Captain (of the eventual E-A).
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  8. #788
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I really love DS9. It is my favorite Star Trek, I have been watching a lot of it this week on BBC America. And the more I watch it the more I have come to see that the Federation holds most of the blame for starting the Dominion War. And that really bugs me.
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  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I really love DS9. It is my favorite Star Trek, I have been watching a lot of it this week on BBC America. And the more I watch it the more I have come to see that the Federation holds most of the blame for starting the Dominion War. And that really bugs me.
    The Dominion was a plainly aggressive power that was seeking to control and take over everything by any means necessary. There was never going to be a diplomatic solution when the only solution the Dominion would accept was complete subjugation, and they were building up their military power in order to threaten the other powers in the Alpha Quadrant. A preemptive strike before they became too powerful for the entire Alpha Quadrant to defeat had become the only option since the Federation and the Klingons would not surrender and agree to be ruled by the Dominion without a fight.

  10. #790
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    But The Federation did not help things. Like how they violated the Dominions territory anytime they felt like it. Like when Dax told the Jem Hedar "If you think kidnapping Captain Sisko will keep up from exploring the Gamma Quadrant you are wrong."
    What right did the Federation have to send ships to explore or build colonies like New Bajor in the Gamma Quadrant when it was someone elses territory? Even after the Dominion said that is our space stay out The Federation kept sending ships in. Would the Federation have done this to the Klingons? or Romulans? So why did they feel like they had the right to violate Dominion space any time they wanted. They used Dominion assgressiness to do what ever they wanted like set up listening posts or send ships through the wormhole. And I argue they would not do this with the Klingons. Even in the Kirk days when the Klingons were still the bad guys the Federation respected their space. I dont blame the Dominion for being pissed.

    Then I hear the augment well The Dominion should not have let Cardassia join, or at least should have talked to the Federation about it. Why? The Dominion has every right to recruit new members. Does the Federation ask when they let a new planet join them expanding their influence and territory? Cardassia was weak and at war. Then what does the Federation do? They let the Kilngons the enemies of The new Dominion nation take sanctuary at DS9.

    Yes the Dominion was an aggressive state. but I can also see their view of how the Federation was never going to respect their borders because everything the Federation did proved they did not respect them. I can see things from the Dominions side as well. i mean after the war part of the treaty was to let Federation ships and colonies in the Gamma Quadrant once again disrespecting Dominion space.
    Last edited by babyblob; 11-19-2020 at 05:19 AM.
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  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    But The Federation did not help things. Like how they violated the Dominions territory anytime they felt like it. Like when Dax told the Jem Hedar "If you think kidnapping Captain Sisko will keep up from exploring the Gamma Quadrant you are wrong."
    What right did the Federation have to send ships to explore or build colonies like New Bajor in the Gamma Quadrant when it was someone elses territory? Even after the Dominion said that is our space stay out The Federation kept sending ships in. Would the Federation have done this to the Klingons? or Romulans? So why did they feel like they had the right to violate Dominion space any time they wanted. They used Dominion assgressiness to do what ever they wanted like set up listening posts or send ships through the wormhole. And I argue they would not do this with the Klingons. Even in the Kirk days when the Klingons were still the bad guys the Federation respected their space. I dont blame the Dominion for being pissed.

    Then I hear the augment well The Dominion should not have let Cardassia join, or at least should have talked to the Federation about it. Why? The Dominion has every right to recruit new members. Does the Federation ask when they let a new planet join them expanding their influence and territory? Cardassia was weak and at war. Then what does the Federation do? They let the Kilngons the enemies of The new Dominion nation take sanctuary at DS9.

    Yes the Dominion was an aggressive state. but I can also see their view of how the Federation was never going to respect their borders because everything the Federation did proved they did not respect them. I can see things from the Dominions side as well. i mean after the war part of the treaty was to let Federation ships and colonies in the Gamma Quadrant once again disrespecting Dominion space.
    The Federation at that point had not violated Dominion space at all. The whole of the Gamma Quadrant was not under Dominion control. The wormhole itself was not under Dominion jurisdiction, which is why so many refugees from other Dominion conquests were feeling there. Those were the people who were fleeing from the edge of Dominion space. At the time they had no claim to any of the space they were claiming the Federation was violating, and their reaction to newcomers in the same side of the galaxy as them was to kidnap a senior officer and wipe out a civilian population, while also demonstrating that they had been violating the other side's territory with how much information they had gathered on the Alpha Quadrant, whence why the Jem Hadar said he wanted to meet a Klingon. Their actions demonstrated that they were hostile, aggressive, and extremely expansionist as they were claiming rights to territory because they could see it and not because they had any official presence there.

    I'd never say the Dominion had no right to sign a treaty with Cardassia, though I would point out that Dukat had no right to sign a treaty behind his government's back, the Dominion knew they were in effect overthrowing the actual government, and we see that making a treaty with them would ultimately lead to subjugation and likely genocide of the local population.

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    But The Federation did not help things. Like how they violated the Dominions territory anytime they felt like it. Like when Dax told the Jem Hedar "If you think kidnapping Captain Sisko will keep up from exploring the Gamma Quadrant you are wrong."
    What right did the Federation have to send ships to explore or build colonies like New Bajor in the Gamma Quadrant when it was someone elses territory? Even after the Dominion said that is our space stay out The Federation kept sending ships in. Would the Federation have done this to the Klingons? or Romulans? So why did they feel like they had the right to violate Dominion space any time they wanted. They used Dominion assgressiness to do what ever they wanted like set up listening posts or send ships through the wormhole. And I argue they would not do this with the Klingons. Even in the Kirk days when the Klingons were still the bad guys the Federation respected their space. I dont blame the Dominion for being pissed.

    Then I hear the augment well The Dominion should not have let Cardassia join, or at least should have talked to the Federation about it. Why? The Dominion has every right to recruit new members. Does the Federation ask when they let a new planet join them expanding their influence and territory? Cardassia was weak and at war. Then what does the Federation do? They let the Kilngons the enemies of The new Dominion nation take sanctuary at DS9.

    Yes the Dominion was an aggressive state. but I can also see their view of how the Federation was never going to respect their borders because everything the Federation did proved they did not respect them. I can see things from the Dominions side as well. i mean after the war part of the treaty was to let Federation ships and colonies in the Gamma Quadrant once again disrespecting Dominion space.
    The Federation at that point had not violated Dominion space at all. The whole of the Gamma Quadrant was not under Dominion control. The wormhole itself was not under Dominion jurisdiction, which is why so many refugees from other Dominion conquests were feeling there. Those were the people who were fleeing from the edge of Dominion space. At the time they had no claim to any of the space they were claiming the Federation was violating, and their reaction to newcomers in the same side of the galaxy as them was to kidnap a senior officer and wipe out a civilian population, while also demonstrating that they had been violating the other side's territory with how much information they had gathered on the Alpha Quadrant, whence why the Jem Hadar said he wanted to meet a Klingon. Their actions demonstrated that they were hostile, aggressive, and extremely expansionist as they were claiming rights to territory because they could see it and not because they had any official presence there.

    I'd never say the Dominion had no right to sign a treaty with Cardassia, though I would point out that Dukat had no right to sign a treaty behind his government's back, the Dominion knew they were in effect overthrowing the actual government, and we see that making a treaty with them would ultimately lead to subjugation and likely genocide of the local population.
    That both sides of this debate are compelling is, to me, an indicator of just how good a show DS9 was.

  13. #793
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Maybe the Dominion did not control the area around the wormhole at first. but once they laid claim to it The Federation should have backed off. The Dominion being that the Gamma Quadrant is their home galaxy has a better claim to it. Still The Federation kept sending ships through. I mean look at the Episode The Ship. After The dominion claimed that the wormhole was off limits because they had claimed that area of Space The Federation sent Sisko and crew to a planet beyond the wormhole to scout a planet to mine. Mine a planet in an area of space another race had claimed. A Jen Hedar ship crashes on the planet. A planet in an area the Dominion had claimed. Sisko decides he will keep the ship under a salvage law. A law that maybe another non human race may not understand. Even if they did recognize salvage laws they only apply to a vessel found in neutral areas. The Dominion had laid claim to that area of space so why should they just give up the ship? Because the all great Federation says so? He fought to keep that ship and it resulted in the loss of a founder who is a god to the Dominion. No wonder the Founders had a bad view of Sisko. He killed one of their members over a ship he had no right to.

    Then Sisko mined the entrance of the wormhole to keep the Dominion from reinforcing a planet that has joined them.

    Would the Federation just let another race into space they had claimed to mine or set up colonies? Like if there was unexplored space on their side of the wormhole. Would the Federation just say "Gee Whiz guys let's let the Romulans explore, mine and set up bases because this is a whole new area." No they would plant the flag and claim it just as The Dominion did. Would they let a Jem Harder ship come across the wormhole just to explore? I doubt it. Yet they sent many war ships into the wormhole and got butt hurt when the Founders had the nerve to get mad. Would they let the Klingons keep one of their ships for salvage if it crashed on a planet the Klingons claimed? Would the Federation let the Cardassians or any other race keep them from reinforcing a planet in their alliance?

    It just seems that The Federation wanted everything their way. They claim to respect other cultures and not interfere but in DS9 that was the case only as long as it did not harm them. When there was something The Federation wanted like a Jem Hedar ship, mining a planet, exploring an area of space claimed by someone else, keeping Cardassia weak they would violate their own non inference policy and violate others space to get what they seem is their due.

    Just because the Federation is committed to exploration and science does not mean that another race should just let them into their borders or follow what ever they say.

    I grant you The Dominion is aggressive and war like. I am sure they were just looking for a reason to fight. And brother did The Federation give them that reason.
    Last edited by babyblob; 11-19-2020 at 10:24 AM.
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  14. #794
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    Why should the Federation back off on an interstellar wonder they found first? It was Sisko and Dax who discovered the wormhole in Bajoran space. If not for the Federation the Dominion would have no idea it even existed. It was Sisko who negotiated with the actual rightful owners of the wormhole to secure safe passage for mortals. This was area where the Federation was there first, and the Dominion came in guns blazing like conquerors instead of like an actual aggrieved party.

    The Federation did try a diplomatic solution immediately after the Dominion made first contact, sending Sisko and the Defiant to try to reach an understanding. Maybe the Dominion had a justification for attacking the Defiant when it was on a mission of peace, but once they had determined that Sisko was only there to negotiate they put him and his crew in an alternate reality to try to to see how many concessions they could get out of the Federation and only let them leave with their lives to appease Odo, By that point they made it obvious that in the long run the only options when dealing with the Dominion were war or surrender. There would be no compromise and no way to coexist with them like there had been with the Klingons and the Romulans. Diplomacy was only a way to push the problem down the road, and securing a military edge became of paramount importance.

    The Federation definitely played dirty. They would strike first and use shocking tactics to gain an edge, but they correctly realized the Dominion's intentions from their actions and reacted accordingly. This is the same government that knowingly abandoned its own citizens for a sham peace with the Cardassians because they knew the Cardassians' violations would be limited to a specific area and they would otherwise be left alone. If there had ever been a chance for a similar deal with the Dominion they would have have jumped at it, but the Dominio made it obvious from the start that the only way there would ever be a final agreement is if the entire Alpha Quadrant surrendered to their rule. It would be little better than negotiating with the Borg.

  15. #795
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Sisko discovering the Wormhole does not change who controls space on the other side of the wormhole. At best it should keep the Dominion on their side. But when the Dominion claimed the space on their side of the wormhole, space on their side of the galaxy as theirs the Federation and other races should had backed off. if I was the Dominion I would not let strangers from the other side of the galaxy into my space and explore and mine a planet and take my wrecked ship just because they happened to find a short cut. if the worm hole had never been found and The Federation found that area of space 80 years later. Would they just violate Dominion space in the same manner? No they would respect their boundaries I would imagine. So why does that not apply just because they used the wormhole? Yes The Federation can debate who owns the wormhole. But they should just control who enters their end and keep people from The gamma from coming to their area. They do not own the side on the gamma Quadrant side and decide who get to go there from their side.

    If The Federation wanted they could have claimed the unclaimed space on the other side of the wormhole. Then if The Dominion attacked the Federation would have been in the right. But they did not and The Dominion claimed that area.

    I have to say you are raising some fun points. I am enjoying this.
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