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  1. #1126
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    I like the idea that Discovery's appearance plus solving the Burn leads to a renewed hope in Starfleet, and everyone gets bright and shiny and colourful costumes, not just the 1031 crew.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  2. #1127
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Despite the initial concept of a severely weakened Starfleet/Federation I felt that season 3 seemed to have more optimism/fun than the first two. Also helped that Michael/Sonequa kind of dropped the whole "human vulcan" persona.
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  3. #1128
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Despite the initial concept of a severely weakened Starfleet/Federation I felt that season 3 seemed to have more optimism/fun than the first two. Also helped that Michael/Sonequa kind of dropped the whole "human vulcan" persona.
    I agree to an extent. I think s2 was also very hopeful and a drastic step up from s1. S3 was greatly helped by Michael not crying constantly, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  4. #1129
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Just finished the first season of "Picard" and still on the first season of "Discovery".

    Generally, I break down the shows into two "realities".

    Star Trek Prime: TOS, the Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, the TOS and NG movies and Picard.

    These all take place in the original reality and, more or less, the same continuity.

    Star Trek Reboot: Enterprise, the new movies and Discovery.

    I love most of the new stuff though I realize they were thinly disguised reboots. Enterprise was not just a reboot because of time travel interference from the future. It was a setting where the transporters work about ten million times better than they worked in "The Cage" or TOS, 150 years later. "Running Transport" as opposed to "Stand absolutely still for 30 seconds if you want to keep all your parts' It was a setting where the equality of women and men was magnitudes better than in TOS 150 years later. Discovery does the same thing.

    I realize this stuff was inevitable because the new shows are being made for a current audience, not a 1960s audience.

    I particularly like "Discovery" because it has that TOS quality of making social statements. We had an openly gay male relationship. We had the exploration of what people are willing to do to survive (The Mirror Universe episodes which I've just started to watch).

    I saw the first two Abrams movies but still haven't seen the third. Not that big of a fan of using time travel to sidestep the exploration of society that was TOS and replace those adventures with action movies.

    Loved the first season of "Picard" (yes back to the prime reality of ST). I felt at first that it was getting too pessimistic but it just showed how easy it is to make decisions based on fear, sometimes fear not grounded in reality, which is a message for our times or any time without getting heavy-handed or specific.
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  5. #1130
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The Chapel/Spock thing never happened of course but I kind of wonder what kind of drew her to him at first.

    The show does however have a chance to deal with his relationship with Leila, from "This Side of Paradise".

    As for Uhura/Spock, I don't see that happening, Prime Uhura flirts with him in "The man trap" (and I think that's where Orci/Kurtzman kind of got that idea) but is kind of rebuffed, but that's pretty much it, they tried to turn Uhura and Scotty into a thing in TFF which was a bit weird, and she did kiss Kirk but that was under mind control.
    From what I've heard, Roddenberry's original intent was to have a Spock/ Uhura relationship but the network vetoed it. He wanted to sneak it through on the grounds that Spock is an alien, not a human white male. But they wouldn't go for it.

    As for Chapel in TOS, she said it herself in "The Naked Time". "I see things. How compassionate you are, how you can't stand to see anyone or anything suffer". But she deluded herself that she could break through that facade and get to what he really was, that she could change him.
    Power with Girl is better.

  6. #1131
    Astonishing Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    Star Trek: TOS characters ranked and graded by me:

    1. Spock A
    2. Kirk A
    3. Scotty B
    4. McCoy B
    5. Sulu C
    6. Checkov C
    7. Urhura C
    8. Chapel D
    9. Rand F

  7. #1132
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Just finished the first season of "Picard" and still on the first season of "Discovery".

    Generally, I break down the shows into two "realities".

    Star Trek Prime: TOS, the Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, the TOS and NG movies and Picard.

    These all take place in the original reality and, more or less, the same continuity.

    Star Trek Reboot: Enterprise, the new movies and Discovery.

    I love most of the new stuff though I realize they were thinly disguised reboots. Enterprise was not just a reboot because of time travel interference from the future. It was a setting where the transporters work about ten million times better than they worked in "The Cage" or TOS, 150 years later. "Running Transport" as opposed to "Stand absolutely still for 30 seconds if you want to keep all your parts' It was a setting where the equality of women and men was magnitudes better than in TOS 150 years later. Discovery does the same thing.

    I realize this stuff was inevitable because the new shows are being made for a current audience, not a 1960s audience.

    I particularly like "Discovery" because it has that TOS quality of making social statements. We had an openly gay male relationship. We had the exploration of what people are willing to do to survive (The Mirror Universe episodes which I've just started to watch).

    I saw the first two Abrams movies but still haven't seen the third. Not that big of a fan of using time travel to sidestep the exploration of society that was TOS and replace those adventures with action movies.

    Loved the first season of "Picard" (yes back to the prime reality of ST). I felt at first that it was getting too pessimistic but it just showed how easy it is to make decisions based on fear, sometimes fear not grounded in reality, which is a message for our times or any time without getting heavy-handed or specific.
    Discovery kind of addresses this a bit by the ship being more or less a one-of-a-kind prototype, with the season 2 finale and season 3 also explaining why nobody's heard of the ship and it's unique secondary warp drive later on.

    TOS Enterprise not having some of the bells and whistles is also explained fairly early in season 2, as well as why the Klingons and their ships are so different in season one.
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  8. #1133
    Astonishing Member Exciter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    I agree to an extent. I think s2 was also very hopeful and a drastic step up from s1. S3 was greatly helped by Michael not crying constantly, too.
    I agree season 2 was an improvement, however I felt the show backslid in season 3 which was just awful.
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  9. #1134
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exciter View Post
    I agree season 2 was an improvement, however I felt the show backslid in season 3 which was just awful.
    Really? I enjoyed it. Maybe I'm just happy for any season without cannibal rapists.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  10. #1135
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Star Trek: TOS characters ranked and graded by me:

    1. Spock A
    2. Kirk A
    3. Scotty B
    4. McCoy B
    5. Sulu C
    6. Checkov C
    7. Urhura C
    8. Chapel D
    9. Rand F
    Dr. McCoy was always my favorite.
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  11. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exciter View Post
    I agree season 2 was an improvement, however I felt the show backslid in season 3 which was just awful.
    I'd take season 3 of DSC over the first 2. At least the rest of the crew did something

  12. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Star Trek: TOS characters ranked and graded by me:

    1. Spock A
    2. Kirk A
    3. Scotty B
    4. McCoy B
    5. Sulu C
    6. Checkov C
    7. Urhura C
    8. Chapel D
    9. Rand
    F
    Not a surprise, the bottom half of your ranking has all the women and Sulu is not even a top 3 .Yep, what this ranking does is shows just how bad the racism and sexism was in the 60s even if Star Trek does get praise for been a very progressive show.

    It is a good statistics ranking because it exposes how crappy the 60s was with females and minorities.

  13. #1138
    Astonishing Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    Here I grade and rank Enterprise characters:

    1. Phlox B
    2. Trip B
    3. Archer B
    4. T'Pol C
    5. Malcom C
    6. Hoshi C
    7. Mayweather D

    Now I will combine the characters from the two shows:

    1. Spock A
    2. Kirk A
    3. Scotty B
    4. Phlox B
    5. McCoy B
    6. Trip B
    7. Archer B
    8. Sulu C
    9. T'Pol C
    10. Checkov C
    11. Urhura C
    12. Malcom C
    13. Hoshi C
    14. Chapel D
    15. Mayweather D
    16. Rand F

    Dr. Phlox was better than Dr. McCoy, in my opinion.
    T'Pol was disappointing, but was the best female character between the two shows.
    Like TOS, Enterprise wrote the characters played by white guys better than the others.
    I won't include Discovery characters, because that show in ongoing.
    Last edited by Witchfan; 09-17-2021 at 10:18 AM.

  14. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Dr. McCoy was always my favorite.
    I hear ya. DeForest Kelley man, in TOS he's fantastic.

    But in TOS the 3 main characters work well mostly cause they are so nicely complemented by the other two. Taken separately they do are still interesting characters but the trio, as a whole, that's where the magic is.

  15. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    I hear ya. DeForest Kelley man, in TOS he's fantastic.

    But in TOS the 3 main characters work well mostly cause they are so nicely complemented by the other two. Taken separately they do are still interesting characters but the trio, as a whole, that's where the magic is.
    Yeah, Kirk, McCoy and Spock served as a neat id, superego, ego trio, balancing out the impulsive Kirk with the moral McCoy and the rational Spock.

    I suspect they are going for a subtler version of that with Strange New Worlds, with a 'trio' of Pike, Spock and Number One.

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