Star Trek: All of Em

[Jokerz79]

I'd imagine there is a credit system for personal use of resources in Starfleet. As for buying the house on Bajor well Bajor isn't a Federation World, and they haven't gotten to the point where they have unlimited resources for their people. One of my favorite episodes from season 1 called progress is basically the Bajorian version of eminent domain to gain farmland. So, they might still be using currency.

As for Raffi what can I say unlike most 24th Century humans she's a petty bitch.

As for why the Miranda was still in use vs the Constitution my guess would be the Miranda had many variants like the Soyuz Class which made it a versatile ship unlike the Constitution which was replaced by the more advance Excelsior Class.

[superduperman]

The idea that they don't have money stems from that scene in Star Trek 4 where Kirk says that people still use money in the past and that they needed to get some. This was automatically interpreted to mean that they don't have any sort of currency in the future. I'm not sure that's how it was meant to be interpreted. For one thing the idea that they wouldn't have a cash system makes sense. They wouldn't have physical money. But they might still have "credits" in the sense that we have digital currency. That having been said, it's obvious that socially money isn't as valued as it once was. When that rich investor woke up from the past in the first season, he thought his money would be worth something. If they use an entirely different currency system, then no, it wouldn't. And his "values" would, at the very least, be seen as unseemly. You can still have a currency system and have it not be the center of life. The idea that they use at least some type of currency would go all the way back to TOS when Uhura bought that tribble. What did she use? The bartender was clearly running a business and intended to turn a profit.

The idea behind Star Trek is that humans are more enlightened than they are today. That doesn't mean that they have to abolish a currency system, it just means they are more responsible about it than we are. The hoarding of things could be seen as socially unacceptable and inappropriate. And things like replicators would make money of any kind less valuable by default just because you wouldn't need to use it as much anyway. Could you still buy houses and land and property? Sure. Would you need it to buy things to fill your house with? Not really. One of the things I've always wondered about is, what do the police on Earth actually do? Is there crime? If there is, what kind is it? When was the last time they had a murder? Do they spend most of their time going after teenagers who take their parents flying cars for a joyride?

[Gray Lensman]

It always strikes me as a bit odd that it seems the constitutions are basically getting phased out in the movie era but the Mirandas stick around for almost another century (Real world reason of course so they could keep reusing the Reliant model, probably)

They didn't have a lot of models, and didn't want to re-use the hero ship from the films in order to distance themselves from them. They really didn't make anything all new until the Ambassador class Enterprise-C showed up, and from what I heard they accidentally destroyed that model, which is why it doesn't show up again in the show.

[sunofdarkchild]

There was 1 Constitution Class ship at the Battle of Wolf 359, though that may not have been in service and may have been grabbed from 'mothballs' due to how desperate the situation was. It's always possible that there were some Connnies still in service in the TNG and DS9 era.

With the Excelsiors, there seems to be this thing where admirals really liked having them as their personal flagships for whatever reason, which seems to have given the class a much longer life than it perhaps should have had. The Mirandas are harder to explain why they stuck around so long other than that there were a crap ton of them made so it took a ridiculously long time for all of those ships to reach the end of their service lives. It seems like something Starfleet and the Federation could have churned out quickly and cheaply compared to other designs. The Constitution Class probably would have lasted longer if there were more of them to begin with like with the classes that followed it.

[ChrisIII]

There's also the Shangri-La which looks like an updated constitution (and seems to be the basis for Picard's Constitution III) with a slightly more Excelsiorish secondary hull which seems to be rolled out at some point between V and VI, just 'offscreen'.

[Captain Craig]

It always strikes me as a bit odd that it seems the constitutions are basically getting phased out in the movie era but the Mirandas stick around for almost another century (Real world reason of course so they could keep reusing the Reliant model, probably)

Maybe the Miranda class is just the Honda Accord or Toyota Corolla of its era. Well built and endurable.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, Reliant, even with a crew not trained for her (although they were geniuses) still managed to hold out against the Enterprise and pretty much wounded her to the point where Kruge's Bird of Prey pretty much struck the killing blow (although Scotty automating everything didn't necessarily help, but probably if the ship were in better shape it would've worked better-think it needed two weeks (or realistically, two months of course) repair/refit according to Scotty).

[Powerboy]

The idea that they don't have money stems from that scene in Star Trek 4 where Kirk says that people still use money in the past and that they needed to get some. This was automatically interpreted to mean that they don't have any sort of currency in the future. I'm not sure that's how it was meant to be interpreted. For one thing the idea that they wouldn't have a cash system makes sense. They wouldn't have physical money. But they might still have "credits" in the sense that we have digital currency. That having been said, it's obvious that socially money isn't as valued as it once was. When that rich investor woke up from the past in the first season, he thought his money would be worth something. If they use an entirely different currency system, then no, it wouldn't. And his "values" would, at the very least, be seen as unseemly. You can still have a currency system and have it not be the center of life. The idea that they use at least some type of currency would go all the way back to TOS when Uhura bought that tribble. What did she use? The bartender was clearly running a business and intended to turn a profit.

The idea behind Star Trek is that humans are more enlightened than they are today. That doesn't mean that they have to abolish a currency system, it just means they are more responsible about it than we are. The hoarding of things could be seen as socially unacceptable and inappropriate. And things like replicators would make money of any kind less valuable by default just because you wouldn't need to use it as much anyway. Could you still buy houses and land and property? Sure. Would you need it to buy things to fill your house with? Not really. One of the things I've always wondered about is, what do the police on Earth actually do? Is there crime? If there is, what kind is it? When was the last time they had a murder? Do they spend most of their time going after teenagers who take their parents flying cars for a joyride?

True. I'm sneaking the Orville into this because they actually addressed these sorts of things clearly and directly. Using it as a basis for what Star Trek never directly explains, the replicators, on a large scale, make currency meaningless among humans and Federation races in general. Since replicators seem to be magic devices that have an endless supply of energy, or the energy comes from some unnamed source, and, since humans have evolved and don't have corporations immediately claiming ownership of the devices and charging for what could eliminate all needs, an economic system becomes unnecessary.

Using Cassidy's comment as a basis, I would imagine that people are allotted credits for various things, such as so many credits to use a transporter outside of official business (since teleporting back to his father's house would not be necessary Starfleet business and he was a cadet) or so many credits for housing. This would prevent things like someone building a mansion and deciding his yard was the entire state of California. I assume there were limits on how much land per person could be used as private property. There would be all sorts of laws.

Likewise, as you and others have said, there would probably be a standard allotment of credits for use among non-Federation worlds and people. For humans on Earth, they might seldom use any of those monthly credits (and the Sisko discussion did imply these things were on a monthly basis). If they accumulate, Sisko would have the money to buy some land on Bajor.

Also, do we assume everyone makes exactly the same? Do certain jobs and professions give you more than the basic you would get for doing nothing or a very easy job?

[superduperman]

I'm thinking in particular of things like the janitor in Star Trek 2 or Picard's gardener friend. Do they just clean things because they like cleaning? Or is it an actual job with pay? If they are a society that values how useful you are, janitors would be seen in same vein as doctors. The people who keep things clean would be more respected than, say, a professional athlete for instance. There are all kinds of "****" jobs no one wants to do but someone needs to do them. People willing to do them would gain some kind of respect from everyone else. If everyone just pursued their own interests, everyone would be an artist or musician.

[James Cameron]

I'm thinking in particular of things like the janitor in Star Trek 2 or Picard's gardener friend. Do they just clean things because they like cleaning? Or is it an actual job with pay? If they are a society that values how useful you are, janitors would be seen in same vein as doctors. The people who keep things clean would be more respected than, say, a professional athlete for instance. There are all kinds of "****" jobs no one wants to do but someone needs to do them. People willing to do them would gain some kind of respect from everyone else. If everyone just pursued their own interests, everyone would be an artist or musician.

It is hard to say when we live under unfettered capitalism and working is miserable for most people in most industries. The idea of a world where any job has value because your labor will be respected and rewarded is fantastical so it's hard to wrap our heads around it, but that's the basic idea. In Star Trek janitors like being janitors because they aren't being exploited. People work and receive better benefits and their autonomy is valued and prioritized. It may not be applicable in real life (hell, humanity most likely will never migrate to space, ever) but it is part of the joy and comfort of Star Trek to watch a show where people's entire mindset around labor is different because there is no exploitation of the working class.

[CaptCleghorn]

My philosophy of the Star Trek era financial setup is there's some system that still uses currency somewhat, but overall it's a system we haven't figured out yet. Kinda like Warp Engines.

[sunofdarkchild]

Re-thinking Worf.

The whole 'Worf-effect' trope may be turned on its head if you assume he became a better warrior as TNG progressed and wasn't all-that good at fighting in season 1. Instead of being the strong guy who gets beat up every week to make the villain look tough, he becomes the scrappy underdog who got back up from all his early defeats and kept training, practicing, and honing his craft until he made himself into the great Klingon warrior of late TNG and DS9.

[nx01a]

Re-thinking Worf.

The whole 'Worf-effect' trope may be turned on its head if you assume he became a better warrior as TNG progressed and wasn't all-that good at fighting in season 1. Instead of being the strong guy who gets beat up every week to make the villain look tough, he becomes the scrappy underdog who got back up from all his early defeats and kept training, practicing, and honing his craft until he made himself into the great Klingon warrior of late TNG and DS9.

That's the way I've always seen it. TNG s1 Worf could never have defeated Jem'hadar after Jem'hadar after Jem'hadar like DS9 s5 Worf, and PIC s3 warrior monk Worf is perhaps his final form.

[ChrisIII]

Kind of interesting that as things progressed Worf generally seemed to be far more stoic than the average Klingon. Even the WEBSTER crossover of all things called him out on that. (Yep, it exists, and is Webster's finale to boot-"Webtrek")

Although it's explained why (In one of the worst DS9 episodes, Let He Who Is Without Sin) that at a soccer game he accidentally killed someone and works to contain his Klingon agression with starfleet discipline (although even starfleet isn't that rigid-Riker seems to try to get him to lighten up a few times).

[BeastieRunner]

Kind of interesting that as things progressed Worf generally seemed to be far more stoic than the average Klingon. Even the WEBSTER crossover of all things called him out on that. (Yep, it exists, and is Webster's finale to boot-"Webtrek")

Although it's explained why (In one of the worst DS9 episodes, Let He Who Is Without Sin) that at a soccer game he accidentally killed someone and works to contain his Klingon agression with starfleet discipline (although even starfleet isn't that rigid-Riker seems to try to get him to lighten up a few times).

I think Worf has the best TNG arc from TNG to PIC of all the OGs.