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  1. #1186
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    But with sensors able to scan for life signs and DNA, surely some... er... bits of Romulans were found over the years of the Romulan War. Maybe it was waved away as the Romulans having Vulcan prisoners/slaves aboard their destroyed ships and bases?
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  2. #1187
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    But with sensors able to scan for life signs and DNA, surely some... er... bits of Romulans were found over the years of the Romulan War. Maybe it was waved away as the Romulans having Vulcan prisoners/slaves aboard their destroyed ships and bases?
    It honestly never made sense in ToS. That's why I don't hold too much to the ToS view of the ENT era

  3. #1188
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It honestly never made sense in ToS. That's why I don't hold too much to the ToS view of the ENT era
    It was a plot device so that the crew of the Enterprise would be suitably shocked to find how much Romulans resemble Vulcans.
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  4. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    It was a plot device so that the crew of the Enterprise would be suitably shocked to find how much Romulans resemble Vulcans.
    Yeah, I get that, but even then it wasn't really logical.

  5. #1190
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    There was also some debate if the TOS and earlier versions of Romulans technically had warp drive. Scotty has a line that says the ship runs on "Simple impulse". Probably meaning it had enough speed to destroy the local starbases outside the NZ but not to do much else.
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  6. #1191
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    There's been a trend I've noticed on the internet lately where a lot of Trek that has traditionally been considered weaker is being re-evaluated. On Reddit and the Trek BBS (which I don't visit frequently), there are constantly threads praising Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Enterprise, and even Star Trek V. My conspiracy theory is that a lot of it's coming from people who dislike NuTrek and it's their way of drawing the line in the sand between "real" Trek and "fake" Trek.

    Personally, I enjoy all Star Trek from all eras to varying degrees. Enterprise is included in that. While I think a lot of the hate it received was due to Trek fatigue and I think it's better than we gave it credit for, but I don't think its great or even in the Top half of Trek shows. I love the production design, I love Jolene Blalock and you'll never hear me say a bad word about Scott Bakula. And of course Shran is great. But, I think a lot of the characters end up falling flat, especially Mayweather, Sato and Reed. They're like if the background Bridge characters of Discovery were supposed to be major characters. The sexualization of T'Pol is really rough when you look back at it and for at least half the show, it was spinning its wheels trying to figure out its identity and at times felt like an amalgamation of all the previous shows. I remember catching an episode that had the exact same twist as a DS9 episode and being really pissed about that. Then of course the anachronistic appearances of the Borg and the Ferengi with very weak hand waves.

    All in all, it was a very flawed show that really suffered from existing after 15 years of straight Star Trek on television. Plus it has the worst last episode of any Star Trek and I'm counting the Turnabout Intruder.
    The show definitely suffered from being run by someone who was not familiar with the TOS setting and only knew the NG and later stuff. There were ridiculous anomalies like doing a running transport in the very first episode in a time when they should not have had transporters at all let alone ones that you could lock onto a moving target.

    Plus shows like Voyager and Enterprise, under Rick Berman, started relying on women in Catwoman suits to sell the shows and other superficial methods. During the last two seasons, Enterprise brought in a good writer (basically, Paramount forced them to bring one in) who knew that setting and started doing some great stuff but most of the audience was gone by then.

    But a lot of the hatred really was not about stuff like that but purist stuff like bringing in the Klingons something like a hundred years before they should have encountered humans and before the Hundred Year War with the Romulans. But those changes were explained by the time travel interference.

    Personally, I liked Enterprise and I really like Discovery. But I do divide Trek into two "realities". One I would call Trek Prime and includes TOS, NG, DS9, Voyager and Picard, all of which, within reason, fit into the same continuity.

    Then you've got Enterprise, the new movies, and Discovery, which I consider a different continuity, reasonably consistent with each other but not with TOS.

    I suppose we could consider them a soft reboot but I'd rather just think of them as a divergent reality.
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  7. #1192
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Enterprise ran 97 episodes. The Original Series only had 80. So it wasn't a total failure.
    Yeah but, on its original run TOS was basically a failed show. Then it built a massive following in conventions and reruns and became a phenomenon. So you had three shows (NG, DS9 and even Voyager) having seven seasons and ending when they chose to end it. Compared to what ST had become by the time Enterprise was done, it was a horrible failure.
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  8. #1193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    There was also some debate if the TOS and earlier versions of Romulans technically had warp drive. Scotty has a line that says the ship runs on "Simple impulse". Probably meaning it had enough speed to destroy the local starbases outside the NZ but not to do much else.
    Honestly it's impossible for Romulans to traverse interstellar distances, much less conquer planets and threaten the Federation, without FTL power

  9. #1194
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    But a lot of the hatred really was not about stuff like that but purist stuff like bringing in the Klingons something like a hundred years before they should have encountered humans and before the Hundred Year War with the Romulans. But those changes were explained by the time travel interference.
    Not really. First contact with the Klingons had never been firmly nailed down in canon before, and despite the non-canon tie-ins loving to depicting as being an early 23rd century event, ENT was actually the one that got right in terms of little had been established ("...there is no starship mission more dangerous than that of first contact. We never know what we will face when we open the door on a new world, how we will be greeted, what exactly the dangers will be. Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war." - "First Contact" [the TNG episode]). So, there's no conflict with the Klingons in ENT vs the rest of the franchise as it existed then.

    Not finding any reference to a century-long Klingon/Romulan war anywhere, either before or after the ENT era.

    Also, the people making the show were very clear that the time travel and timeline alterations in ENT lead to the creation of the TOS era onwards (e.g., ENT was not an alternate timeline, but a de facto prequel). The episodes "Regeneration" and "These Are the Voyages..." confirmed that, as has subsequent references to ENT in TV shows clearly building off of the pre-ENT shows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Personally, I liked Enterprise and I really like Discovery. But I do divide Trek into two "realities". One I would call Trek Prime and includes TOS, NG, DS9, Voyager and Picard, all of which, within reason, fit into the same continuity.

    Then you've got Enterprise, the new movies, and Discovery, which I consider a different continuity, reasonably consistent with each other but not with TOS.

    I suppose we could consider them a soft reboot but I'd rather just think of them as a divergent reality.
    That doesn't work. Despite the discrepancies in DSC, it's too heavily integrated into prime universe to separate as an alt-timeline, and, as noted before, it's been long proven that ENT was always part of the same timeline.
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  10. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I wonder if the general fan opinion of ENT improved since it ended.
    Not mine at least. It's watchable and it never gets as annoying as sometimes Voyager can be at its lowest but damn, that's so average.

    When it comes to Star Trek i noticed, i liked every new show a bit less than its predecessor. I hate none though. (not counting Picard and that low decks or whatever show, haven't watched them yet)

  11. #1196
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    I'm not understanding the placement of Enterprise for some of you.

    It is ALL TREK Prime(or whatever) except for JJ Abrams '09 Trek film series with Pine, Quinto etc aka the Kelvinverse.

    For better or worse Enterprise and Discovery all fall into the same MAIN Trek timeline, wrinkles, warts and all. The Temporal Cold War caused issues, that was a lazy writing need an 'out' to be able to do more futuristic stuff than the era of the show would dictate. Discovery on some level with the Spore Drive and more sleek looking ship had to to explain itself with a level of Secrecy then blast the ship out of the starting point in the timeline to a much, much later point in the timeline...but it was still the MAIN Trek timeline. Not a divergent one. Not a mirror one. Not a parallel one.

    The Trek saga of shows from a linear perspective is looking somewhat like this:
    Enterprise->Discovery(S1-3)->Section 31 show->SNWorlds->TOS->TOS:Animated->TNG->DS9->Voyager->Lower Decks->Prodigy->Picard---->Discovery S4+
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  12. #1197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Not mine at least. It's watchable and it never gets as annoying as sometimes Voyager can be at its lowest but damn, that's so average.

    When it comes to Star Trek i noticed, i liked every new show a bit less than its predecessor. I hate none though. (not counting Picard and that low decks or whatever show, haven't watched them yet)
    I don't totally love Picard but the season 2 trailer intrigues me.

  13. #1198
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Not really. First contact with the Klingons had never been firmly nailed down in canon before, and despite the non-canon tie-ins loving to depicting as being an early 23rd century event, ENT was actually the one that got right in terms of little had been established ("...there is no starship mission more dangerous than that of first contact. We never know what we will face when we open the door on a new world, how we will be greeted, what exactly the dangers will be. Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war." - "First Contact" [the TNG episode]). So, there's no conflict with the Klingons in ENT vs the rest of the franchise as it existed then.

    Not finding any reference to a century-long Klingon/Romulan war anywhere, either before or after the ENT era.

    Also, the people making the show were very clear that the time travel and timeline alterations in ENT lead to the creation of the TOS era onwards (e.g., ENT was not an alternate timeline, but a de facto prequel). The episodes "Regeneration" and "These Are the Voyages..." confirmed that, as has subsequent references to ENT in TV shows clearly building off of the pre-ENT shows.



    That doesn't work. Despite the discrepancies in DSC, it's too heavily integrated into prime universe to separate as an alt-timeline, and, as noted before, it's been long proven that ENT was always part of the same timeline.

    I think-apart from brief 'hot' periods like the one in Discovery's first season, the Federation and the Klingons I think sort of had a 'cold war' going on. The Klingons we see in the movies for example, are all rogues unauthorized (Kruge's actions however are defended by the ambassador in the next movies) to fight Kirk and co. Ditto with the Duras who cause a lot of the Klingon related problems in TNG and later part of DS9.
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  14. #1199
    Astonishing Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    "Spock's Brain" is so bad that Paramount Plus will not let me watch it.

  15. #1200
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    "Spock's Brain" is so bad that Paramount Plus will not let me watch it.
    Until recently, it's the only episode I couldn't recall. Which is weird, since TOS was my favorite show growing up during the '70s and I constantly watched it whenever it was on. As bad as other episodes from that last season were, there was still something to latch on to. Spock's Brain, though, just bores me (even with the sexy Marj Dusay in it).
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