Star Trek: All of Em

[babyblob]

[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;5917739]

I think DS9 season 2 was not as bad as TNG season 2.
It's more 'polished' I do agree, but in terms of episodes being actually good or iconic or awesome, I'd still give the win to TNG for season 2. Q Who surpasses anything DS9 offered in season 2, add in Elementary, Dear Data and the Emissary. I don't know, doesn't seem so cut and dry to me.


I do agree the DS9 characters, as a whole, evolved more from season 1 to 7.


I mean... bit of a terrible example, I'm afraid. Citing the first ever episode as an example of 'no character growth'.

Yea thats the first one I thought of. I cited that first episode because at that point he had been living with humans for what 20 years? he still didnt grasp basic slang or turn of Phrase? yea as character growth in the series it was a bad example. But it set the tone with how they were goijgt to play his character in the series. but it was like that the whole series. He never grew. Always had issues with slang and how people talk. Always lost in the conversation. They gave him a cat, great. The emption Chip that he never used. Fun. At the end of the day he was just a very bland character that did not grow in the least. Oh he died saving Picard. That shows he cares. I guess. But he never did anything memorable in any of the episodes.

I like the Data character for what he was. But to say he grew as a character from season 1 to season 7, not much at all.

I will agree the Emissary was a great episode And A Matter of Honor was also fun. But DS9 season 2 had some better episodes. Such as Paradise, The Wire, Tribunal, Whispers, Rivals, Just to name a few.

[SJNeal]

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Swap out "Whispers" and "Rivals" for "Blood Oath" and "The Jem'Hadar" and you got yourself a list!

[babyblob]

^ ^ ^

Swap out "Whispers" and "Rivals" for "Blood Oath" and "The Jem'Hadar" and you got yourself a list!

Those were both really good. But what makes the other two tops those for me is my love of Miles and Quark. Seeing Quark come up vs someone just as slimly as him was a lot of fun.

[nx01a]

My favourite Voyager episodes would be:
1. Year of Hell [PART I & II]
2. Prey
3. Endgame [PART I & II]
4. Scorpion [PART I & II]
5. Bride of Chaotica!
6. Equinox [PART I & II]
7. Q and the Grey
8. Caretaker [PART I & II]
9. Future's End [PART I & II]
10. Warlord

As someone above said... Ooooh! Lists!

My 10 Favourite VOY Episodes...
1 Scorpion pts 1 &2 + The Gift (Basically a 3 parter.)
2 Year of Hell pts 1 & 2
3 Deadlock
4 Timeless
5 Scientific Method
6 The Void
7 The Omega Directive
8 Hope and Fear
9 Bride of Chaotica!
10 Message in a Bottle

I never get tired of rewatching those episodes.

[Kieran_Frost]

Yea thats the first one I thought of. I cited that first episode because at that point he had been living with humans for what 20 years? he still didnt grasp basic slang or turn of Phrase? yea as character growth in the series it was a bad example. But it set the tone with how they were goijgt to play his character in the series. but it was like that the whole series. He never grew. Always had issues with slang and how people talk. Always lost in the conversation. They gave him a cat, great. The emption Chip that he never used. Fun. At the end of the day he was just a very bland character that did not grow in the least. Oh he died saving Picard. That shows he cares. I guess. But he never did anything memorable in any of the episodes.

I like the Data character for what he was. But to say he grew as a character from season 1 to season 7, not much at all.

I think you're being way too harsh. Firstly, I don't see it mattering what he said in the pilot episode when they didn't know if it would even get made, it was simple dialogue to establish the character (and it worked) for the money men who were giving it very little wiggle room. But if you look at Data in S1 and Data in S7... i heavily disagree that he is an un-evolved character.

I will agree the Emissary was a great episode And A Matter of Honor was also fun. But DS9 season 2 had some better episodes. Such as Paradise, The Wire, Tribunal, Whispers, Rivals, Just to name a few.

Ahhhhhh, I think we might have found the core conflict... yeah, I can't stand O'Brien, so any episode where he plays a focal part I never enjoyed much. Limited actor, dull character, incredibly hypocritical in standards of morality; ugh. He's up there with Chakotey for me (which isn't Neelix or Adira unwatchable, but it's getting there). But regardless, none of those match Q Who for awesomeness.

Swap out "Whispers" and "Rivals" for "Blood Oath" and "The Jem'Hadar" and you got yourself a list!

You're both wrong, best episode of Season 2 is "Necessary Evil"

As someone above said... Ooooh! Lists!

My 10 Favourite VOY Episodes...
1 Scorpion pts 1 &2 + The Gift (Basically a 3 parter.)
2 Year of Hell pts 1 & 2
3 Deadlock
4 Timeless
5 Scientific Method
6 The Void
7 The Omega Directive
8 Hope and Fear
9 Bride of Chaotica!
10 Message in a Bottle

I never get tired of rewatching those episodes.

Season 4 and 5 was really where Voyager shone. Love those two seasons.

[Exciter]

As someone above said... Ooooh! Lists!

My 10 Favourite VOY Episodes...
1 Scorpion pts 1 &2 + The Gift (Basically a 3 parter.)
2 Year of Hell pts 1 & 2
3 Deadlock
4 Timeless
5 Scientific Method
6 The Void
7 The Omega Directive
8 Hope and Fear
9 Bride of Chaotica!
10 Message in a Bottle

I never get tired of rewatching those episodes.

"Tuvix" would be up there for me, I thought the moral question was really interesting. My wife still says "she killed Tuvix!" anytime she sees Janeway.

"Tsunkatse" as well because it had the Rock using his pro-wrestling moves on Seven.

"Basics" 1&2 also for how great Brad Dourif was as Suder. I wish he was a main cast member.

[babyblob]

Kieran we will have to agree to disagree on Data. but I am all on board with Q. he is a fun amazing character and I loved every episode he was in (with the Sherwood Forest episode of TNG being his weakest performance in the role I think) He was great on TNG, Loved his appearance on DS( and he did great on Voyager even though I did not like the show. I wish they would have brought him out for Enterprise and it would be great for a fun shot on Discovery.

[sunofdarkchild]

For me:

1. DS9-TOS I find it very hard to choose between these 2. They are the 2 most consistently good Star Trek shows. TOS is always enjoyable even in the bad episodes because of how great the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic is, while DS9 has the best extended cast in the franchise and the best overall storytelling. The cast of both shows is far more human than the other Trek series.

2. TNG At its best its better than TOS and DS9, but season 1 is the worst Trek has ever been, and it took until season 3 for it to start delivering consistent a consistent level of quality. That's far too much of the show that's complete garbage, and I find the cast to be far less compelling as characters than TOS or DS9.

3. Lower Decks As a comedy show that makes fun of the classic Trek tropes it works. Nothing spectacular, but fine.

4. TAS It places here purely on the basis of the charm of the original cast. A cartoon from the early 70s without much budget couldn't really do much.

5. Discovery The cast is the third best of all the Trek shows after DS9 and TOS, except for the main character. Michael is the albatross that drags the series down. They really needed to dial her down after season 1 and make Saru and Tilly the main characters. If Saru was the main character instead of Michael this would be neck and neck with TNG. Because of Michael it's consistently mediocre to ok and never has the chance to become great.

6. Enterprise This was the show I watched as a kid and I loved it growing up, but going back now it's really, really flawed and I don't like it anywhere near as much as I used to. It did turn things around pretty well in seasons 3 and 4, but still, half the show was crap and even at its best it wasn't as good as the better shows. The cast is pretty weak as well compared to other Trek series.

7. Voyager This is the worst because it is the most consistently bad series in all of Star Trek. There are individual episodes that are better than anything in Enterprise or Discovery like Scorpion, but the number of those is extremely low, and if any episode was picked at random the odds are 80-90% that it's going to be complete and utter crap. Only season 1 of TNG is worse. And the cast is the worst in Trek. Only the Doctor and 7 are compelling characters, but 7's stories got really old really quickly.

[nx01a]

"Tuvix" would be up there for me, I thought the moral question was really interesting. My wife still says "she killed Tuvix!" anytime she sees Janeway.
"Tsunkatse" as well because it had the Rock using his pro-wrestling moves on Seven.
"Basics" 1&2 also for how great Brad Dourif was as Suder. I wish he was a main cast member.

If Tuvix had embodied the worst parts of Tuvok and Neelix, viewers would have cheered as Janeway had him bisected.
The Rock had an enjoyable cameo in an otherwise meh episode.
The thing about Suder is that you could see him die a bit inside every time he had to commit violence/murder in 'Basics'. A character who finally found peace having to resort to the behaviours that initially controlled him in order to save others? Wonderfully done but so painful to watch. At least he found lasting peace in the end.

Season 4 and 5 was really where Voyager shone. Love those two seasons.

Yeah, they're the best seasons of VOY.
...and the best episode of DS9 s2 is 'The Jem'Hadar'! Apart from the obvious start of the Dominion War, we get the first(?) two of Quark's epic insights into humanity, of which this is the best in this episode.

And Quark's the one in the end who saved the Alpha Quadrant by investigating the lock Because Greed!

[C_Miller]

Season 4 and 5 was really where Voyager shone. Love those two seasons.

I'm doing a re-watch of Voyager right now and it's certainly a slog sometimes, but we're about halfway through Season 5 and I have been impressed by the quality episode to episode. Season 4 was pretty good too especially episodes like Living Witness, which may be one of my favorite Star Trek episodes of all time, but Season 5 has just been so darn consistent. I recall quality starts to decline towards the middle of Season 6, so I'm going to enjoy this while I can.

...and the best episode of DS9 s2 is 'The Jem'Hadar'! Apart from the obvious start of the Dominion War, we get the first(?) two of Quark's epic insights into humanity, of which this is the best in this episode.

And Quark's the one in the end who saved the Alpha Quadrant by investigating the lock Because Greed!

The Jem'Hadar is great. I think my favorite of Season 2 though is probably "Cardassians." The one where Garek and Bashir have to investigate the Cardassian War Orphan who has a Bajoran adoptive father. It's a really Star Trek-y moral quandary that doesn't end in a nice bow. You're left really thinking about what was right and what was wrong, even as the credits role.

[babyblob]

Everyone kind of discounts Quark because yes he is greedy, he can be goofy but at the end of the day he has the best insight into people. Years of owning a bar and dealing with different races in the Trek universe.

I cant think of the name of the episode off the top of my head but everyone knows which one I mean.

The one where Nog loses his leg. he is looking up the the Federation Ground Troopers. Admires how brave they are, how dangerous they are. And Quark takes him aside and tells him to be careful. humans are not to be admired. They are good people as long as they have their creature comforts, sonic showers and holodecks, but take that away and they are bad as anyone.

I love that he pointed that out. Because every Trek show tries to paint The Federation and humans as saints and these noble people.

Sisko in the Marquis episode also pointed something like this out to Kira. how Earth is Paradise and it is easy to be a Saint in Paradise, but the humans on the boarder are not even close to being in Paradise.

[SJNeal]

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"The Siege of AR-558". Great episode on all counts!

[nx01a]

'The Siege of AR-558' is one episode I never rewatch. It's SO depressing. I think 'Nor the Battle to the Strong' got the same point across without wallowing in the hopelessness. I wouldn't have watched DS9 if every episode was like that but I respect the portrayal of the horrors of (ground) war here. Looking at you, DISC s1. That's why episodic Trek with continuing story/character arcs and 2/3 parters works best.

The best parts of 'Siege' for me involved Quark: protecting unconscious Nog from the Jem'Hadar and bursting Nog's hero worship bubble of traumatized human soldiers.

[ChrisIII]

Looks like Starfleet Academy has been greenlighted. It's interesting, despite it being the subject of multiple books, comics, and games, a pitch for Star Trek VI and being a major part of the first half of the first reboot movie, it finally happened.

[Anthony W]

Guess what!? That Section 31 show is still alive!

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“Yes, we are still in development on ‘Section 31,’ so there will be more news on that soon,” Nicole Clemens, president of original scripted series at Paramount Plus, told reporters during an executive session alongside chief programming officer Tanya Giles at the Television Critics Association’s press tour Tuesday. “And two, the question about ‘critical mass’ on ‘Star Trek,’ I think we have some fantastic offerings in our always on slate,” in reference to “Star Trek” shows lined up back-to-back on the Paramount Plus rollout schedule."

https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/01/par...-31-news-soon/