Star Trek: All of Em

[thwhtGuardian]

In the 80's kids were kicked out of school because they were HIV Positive. Also in the 80's Dentist and Doctors refused patients long after the medical community knew HIV/AIDS weren't air born.

In 2004 most Americans didn't support gay marriage even Barack Obama didn't public support in 2008 only supporting civil unions. Trans rights weren't even a thing until the last few years.

I'm liberal but

1: Both parties Gerrymander.

2: We've been out spending the world on Military since the 80's and sadly parts of the left are the biggest against funding NASA because they feel the money could be better used on Social programs for the poor.

As for Abortion I don't like what's happening, but it was always a chance if we got a conservative court.

When I hear things are worse now than a few years ago I think "God you lived a Privileged Life" No time is easy there was never a good old days we fight for what's right and slowly things get better it's always been an uphill battle and quite frankly we are further up the hill than before because while we might stumble things are still as a whole better.

Which why I love Trek when it's showing us what the future can be once we get to the top of that hill.

Again, it's not that things ARE worse now, it's that they are trending negatively and they continue to do so. And we're well past it just being a stumble in progress because it isn't accidental, but in a concentrated effort to roll back the clock...and there are only a finite number of ticks left so any amount of time spent trying to go backwards is a serious threat to the future.
For instance, even if all 140 countries that have announced net zero targets or are considering them actually reach these goals, as well as their more ambitious 2030 commitments under the Paris Agreement, warming would only be limited to 1.8°C by 2100 which is over the predicted point of no return for global warming.

[Sutekh]

Again, it's not that things ARE worse now, it's that they are trending negatively and they continue to do so. And we're well past it just being a stumble in progress because it isn't accidental, but in a concentrated effort to roll back the clock...and there are only a finite number of ticks left so any amount of time spent trying to go backwards is a serious threat to the future.

The pendulum swings. One group swings it forward, another group freaks out and tries to drag it back to even farther than it was before it swung forward.

Eventually the reactionaries age out and die off, and we end up with a country that our Founding Fathers wouldn't recognize, where women can vote, wives can testify against an abusive husband and black Americans count as citizens.

Kicking and screaming, we will be dragged into the future.

[ChrisIII]

Thing it's a bit of a retcon that First Contact fixed things almost immediately; after all the trial Q creates in TNG's pilot and finale is supposed to be a recreation of something from 2079, sixteen years later.

[WebLurker]

Which why I love Trek when it's showing us what the future can be once we get to the top of that hill.

While working for a better future is always a good thing and the franchise does support that goal, Star Trek has always been about the present, not the future.

[Jokerz79]

While working for a better future is always a good thing and the franchise does support that goal, Star Trek has always been about the present, not the future.

True, but Trek used aliens or rogue factions to show the problems of our current society while portraying the Federation, Starfleet, & Humanity in the Future as what we could be if we got over those issues.

[nx01a]

I've always seen the allegorical aliens and rogue elements for me represent ever-present negative forces both external and internal which must be overcome by actively choosing to do the right thing, to be a good person. The Federation is in some ways a utopia but it's a fragile heaven that still has to be fought for and protected.

[WebLurker]

True, but Trek used aliens or rogue factions to show the problems of our current society while portraying the Federation, Starfleet, & Humanity in the Future as what we could be if we got over those issues.

Course, some of the more recent shows have been showing the flaws of the Federation, just around the same time that we're having to grapple with the fact that we're progressed far less than we thought we had and backsliding or being dragged back is an issue.

[Pinsir]

In the TOS episode "The Way of Eden" the focus is on a bunch of hippies trying to escape the Federation to find a utopia. "A Private Little War" also has the Federation playing the role of an arms dealer and is one the few episodes in the entire franchise that ends on a plot that is resolved badly. The Federation hasn't always been depicted as perfect even in the original series.

[Jokerz79]

Course, some of the more recent shows have been showing the flaws of the Federation, just around the same time that we're having to grapple with the fact that we're progressed far less than we thought we had and backsliding or being dragged back is an issue.

In the opening episode of DISCO Michael Burnham knockout her Captain and commits an act of mutiny which leads to War with the Klingons.

In the Pilot for Picard workers are complaining about getting worse replicator food than their superiors (Which makes no sense a Replicator can replicate streak just as easily as noodles) also Raffi complains about Picard living in his families chateau while she had a trailer.

Star Trek is suppose to be a future where humanity through unity has gotten ride of War (With Ourselves), Crime, Disease, Poverty, Addiction, Racism and all forms of hatred of one for how they're born, & Want (There is food and housing for all) and this has led to a society where people aren't petty, greedy, or Jealous. To be clear these aren't my ideas these are the words of Gene Roddenberry.

Gene use to drive the TNG writers nuts because he said there couldn't be inner conflict because of humanity moving beyond such things. In DISCO Michael Burnham violates that core belief in the pilot as I mentioned. Picard tries to create a class system that wouldn't exist in the Federation. Star Trek isn't suppose to just be a mirror at ourselves but also a picture of what could be and should be. Pre-Kurtzman regularly told the stories of injustice they just never had to drag Gene's vision of humanity in the mud to do it.

[ChrisIII]

In the TOS episode "The Way of Eden" the focus is on a bunch of hippies trying to escape the Federation to find a utopia. "A Private Little War" also has the Federation playing the role of an arms dealer and is one the few episodes in the entire franchise that ends on a plot that is resolved badly. The Federation hasn't always been depicted as perfect even in the original series.

Not to mention that there's plenty of episodes across all the series with corrupt starfleet officers, although some did it with good intentions that ended up very badly.

[Jokerz79]

This kind of proves my point in the Pre-Kurtzman Era of Trek when these things happened in Starfleet and Federation it was Rogue Officers or Organizations inside Starfleet/The Federation.

As for something like Private Little War the term "Arms Dealer" is loaded (No pun intended) and is being used IMO to make Starfleet look worse. The Klingon's gave weapons 1st starting wars. Let's say we compare this to current real world events the UK gave the Ukraine weapons. Should the Headline read UK are Arms Dealers in Ukraine Russian War?

Not all arms deals are morally wrong.

[thwhtGuardian]

This kind of proves my point in the Pre-Kurtzman Era of Trek when these things happened in Starfleet and Federation it was Rogue Officers or Organizations inside Starfleet/The Federation.

As for something like Private Little War the term "Arms Dealer" is loaded (No pun intended) and is being used IMO to make Starfleet look worse. The Klingon's gave weapons 1st starting wars. Let's say we compare this to current real world events the UK gave the Ukraine weapons. Should the Headline read UK are Arms Dealers in Ukraine Russian War?

Not all arms deals are morally wrong.

Eh, I disagree with that one; adding more arms to volatile situations is pretty much always a recipe for more suffering and even Kirk realized that in the episode as he describes the action at the end as, "adding serpants to the garden of eden."

And I could definitely see someone making the same kind of argument for the war in Ukraine. It's terrible and I wish it was over and Ukraine was free...but I'm not entirely sure injecting more weapons there is the best answer especially as I'm not sure the idea behind it is entirely benevelont. Sure, the world doesn't want to see Russia win but I think there are many in the military industrial complex who are far more interested in using Ukraine as a test bed for weapons systems than they are in saving lives.

[Powerboy]

Eh, I disagree with that one; adding more arms to volatile situations is pretty much always a recipe for more suffering and even Kirk realized that in the episode as he describes the action at the end as, "adding serpants to the garden of eden."

And I could definitely see someone making the same kind of argument for the war in Ukraine. It's terrible and I wish it was over and Ukraine was free...but I'm not entirely sure injecting more weapons there is the best answer especially as I'm not sure the idea behind it is entirely benevelont. Sure, the world doesn't want to see Russia win but I think there are many in the military industrial complex who are far more interested in using Ukraine as a test bed for weapons systems than they are in saving lives.

I think the thing with A Private Little War was that Kirk realized what he was doing but saw no alternative but to let one village wipe the other out of existence.

Interestingly, there was a NG episode about an ambassador who had to give weapons to one side to save hostages and then gave the same weapons to the other side. But things had changed enough by then that he had to hide it from Starfleet.

[Malvolio]

In A Private Little War, McCoy points out to Kirk that what he's doing is morally questionable. Kirk sort of agrees, but says that he doesn't see a better solution.

[ChrisIII]

I never really got the "No crew conflict!" thing, especially since one of the most important aspects of TOS were the whole McCoy/Spock arguments, although they weren't always mean-spirited and often used for comedy; they even tried to duplicate it a bit with Pulaski and Data, although Data given his somewhat more innocent nature seemed less offended/annoyed by it than Spock was of course.


Funny thing is, the film in which Roddenberry was most directly involved, The Motion Picture, arguably has the most crew conflict (I'm not sure V counts as the crew was mostly brainwashed or in some state of Euphoria due to Sybok's 'getting rid of pain' thing) among the big three who barely trust each other (Although that's pretty much resolved by film's end), even adding an extra person (Decker) into the mix!