Star Trek: All of Em

[Vidocq]

Actually Jane Wyatt (Amanda) did not appear in TNG. Sarek had a new wife in TNG although I think Amanda is mentioned during Picard's emotional freak out after the mind meld with Sarek. Presumabely Amanda passed away in the interim between The Voyage Home and TNG.


Not counting the Winona Ryder version that is.

No, but she did appear in the movies, particulary in the voyage home.

The new movies and TNG? Or the original movies and TNG?

The Original movies and TNG. They are both dead now and wouldn't be able to do the movies even if they were alive. Apparently Leonard Nimoy was ''moved to tears'' several times during the premiere because seeing those characters again (+Scotty and Bones) reminded him too much of his fallen friends.

[alex]

I second that. Followed by a public flogging of Abrams and everyone else responsible for those movies.

As for a new series I would like to see a Starfleet Academy series with new characters. They could end the series with them graduating the academy and start a new string of movies based on their five year mission.

I somehow think it would be a bad idea to crap all over the things that were successful.

[Cyke]

I somehow think it would be a bad idea to crap all over the things that were successful.

I've been watching Trek for decades, first with my father and then with friends and now I've successfully converted my SO into a Trekkie. With that said, I love that the 2009 movie injected new life into the franchise, went back to the 60s, and didn't take itself too seriously (by trying unecessarily to be badass) the way that boring Insurrection and overly-cliche'd Nemesis (evil twin! Earth in danger! revenge plot! car chase! rape scene! It's a trap! Mano-e-mano!) did. It didn't depend on technobabble for plot resolution, it gave each of the Big 7 integral roles to the mission, and it took the audience on a roller coaster. Sure, some events seem hackneyed and the villain wasn't memorable, but the past few movies also suffered the same, so those faults in particular aren't anything new. All in all, the movie was clear with what it wanted to accomplish, and it largely succeeded, imo.

I've mixed feelings about Into Darkness, though. The whole reason for a reboot is to try fresh ideas with a proven brand, but it's kind of moot if you're just going to remake TWOK. And, lastly, I watch Star Trek for the sense of exploration, but this movie spent so much time on Earth! Still, as a Trekkie, I appreciate that the movie took more nods to the old continuity, and confirmed once and for all that Enterprise and First Contact are canon in both timelines. And their Big Bad was from Deep Space Nine, the most underrated of all Trek shows!

[Cometman]

I somehow think it would be a bad idea to crap all over the things that were successful.

Why do you think that?

I would hope that a little criticism might encourage them to do a better job with the next movie. The effort they put into the second movie can only be described as poor. If they don't do any better with the next one it may not be "successful". I am a life long fan and would like to see Star Trek go on forever.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

Why do you think that?

I would hope that a little criticism might encourage them to do a better job with the next movie. The effort they put into the second movie can only be described as poor. If they don't do any better with the next one it may not be "successful". I am a life long fan and would like to see Star Trek go on forever.

Did the first movie apologise for enterprise.

[Cyke]

Did the first movie apologise for enterprise.

They didn't have to. It wasn't their product. Other than a few designers and artists (John Eaves, for example), I don't think there was much of an overlap of production crews, either. Not that it matters much; Brannon Braga apologized, and that's good enough for me (Berman still insists otherwise, I think. And Manny Coto tried valiantly to save it, but too late -- it's kind of telling that his career flourished since then).

With that said, I'm really surprised that Abrams and Co. confirmed that Enterprise was the only show that's canon in both timelines. They could have approached the reboot in any way they wanted to, including, yes, a full reboot with no connection to the primary canon whatsoever (like all other reboots), especially given the show's less-than-stellar reputation. But it was their choice to include the show into the Abrams mythology.

[Vidocq]

They didn't have to. It wasn't their product. Other than a few designers and artists (John Eaves, for example), I don't think there was much of an overlap of production crews, either. Not that it matters much; Brannon Braga apologized, and that's good enough for me (Berman still insists otherwise, I think. And Manny Coto tried valiantly to save it, but too late -- it's kind of telling that his career flourished since then).

With that said, I'm really surprised that Abrams and Co. confirmed that Enterprise was the only show that's canon in both timelines. They could have approached the reboot in any way they wanted to, including, yes, a full reboot with no connection to the primary canon whatsoever (like all other reboots), especially given the show's less-than-stellar reputation. But it was their choice to include the show into the Abrams mythology.

They really don't loose anything with including it, any more than the original series did when it came out. It would be as if JJ Abrahms decided that everything from the Star Wars EU was not canon except for the KOTOR games. It means nothing and it would likely not be included in the movie.

Also, this way they get TOS Spock, which made for a couple of great scenes in the first one and a nice reminder of awesome Wrath of Khan was in the next one.

Frankly I love that they didn't just do a hard reboot, this is Star Trek, it's sci fi, a lot of what happens has a nice technobable explanation, it's only fitting that it's the same for it's reboot.

[Cyke]

They really don't loose anything with including it, any more than the original series did when it came out. It would be as if JJ Abrahms decided that everything from the Star Wars EU was not canon except for the KOTOR games. It means nothing and it would likely not be included in the movie.

Also, this way they get TOS Spock, which made for a couple of great scenes in the first one and a nice reminder of awesome Wrath of Khan was in the next one.

Frankly I love that they didn't just do a hard reboot, this is Star Trek, it's sci fi, a lot of what happens has a nice technobable explanation, it's only fitting that it's the same for it's reboot.

I'm sure it'd be simpler for Abrams and the writers to just start from the ground up and not even have Spock Prime if they wanted a reboot or mess with anything from the Berman-era. But by referencing the shows, accepting Enterprise into the fold, and including Spock Prime in on the fun (including remembering his TNG title - Ambassador Spock and consciously dating his last moments well after Nemesis), I appreciate that they went down the more difficult route of doing research on a massive franchise for some sort of internal consistency. They even got some folks from ILM who worked on First Contact! That extra mile goes so far.

[Mari]

With that said, I'm really surprised that Abrams and Co. confirmed that Enterprise was the only show that's canon in both timelines. They could have approached the reboot in any way they wanted to, including, yes, a full reboot with no connection to the primary canon whatsoever (like all other reboots), especially given the show's less-than-stellar reputation. But it was their choice to include the show into the Abrams mythology.

It makes sense because Enterprise occurred before Nero and Spock traveled back in time. It should be part of the canon.

[Zero Hunter]

I've mixed feelings about Into Darkness, though. The whole reason for a reboot is to try fresh ideas with a proven brand, but it's kind of moot if you're just going to remake TWOK. And, lastly, I watch Star Trek for the sense of exploration, but this movie spent so much time on Earth! Still, as a Trekkie, I appreciate that the movie took more nods to the old continuity, and confirmed once and for all that Enterprise and First Contact are canon in both timelines. And their Big Bad was from Deep Space Nine, the most underrated of all Trek shows!

A almost think they had to do Kahn just to get it out of the way. Otherwise all you would have heard is when are they doing Kahn? Now they can go on from there without having him hanging over their head. Plus they did throw in enough other stuff in that movie like the new look Klingons that they set themselves in a good place.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

A almost think they had to do Kahn just to get it out of the way. Otherwise all you would have heard is when are they doing Kahn? Now they can go on from there without having him hanging over their head. Plus they did throw in enough other stuff in that movie like the new look Klingons that they set themselves in a good place.

The problem is they lied the whole of production saying he wasn't kahn even though just about anyone who cared had guessed he really was kahn and were then like surprise we fooled ya.

[BeastieRunner]

I finally watched Into Darkness last night.

I guess I'm in the minority of people that actually liked it? Or is it just Trekkies that hate the new stuff?

[Cyke]

It makes sense because Enterprise occurred before Nero and Spock traveled back in time. It should be part of the canon.

It was only implied with the first movie, despite all the fan mock-ups and theories and debates. It was only Word of God and then Into Darkness that the "hard proof" was there to confirm it. Otherwise, there really was nothing to stop Abrams and Co. from just saying it was a flat out completely separate timeline; despite the dates matching up, that could've been a completely different baby Kirk and Spock Jr. that we flashed back to. For example, Chekov's age doesn't even match in both universes, so while it's true that many changes in the timeline are attributed to Nero and subsequent consequences, there are a few changes that can't be traced back.

I remember when the Enterprise finale was coming up and there was a bit of fear among Trekkies that the finale would involve the temporal cold war and wipe out much of Enterprise in order to fit it with the rest of the canon because of the rumor that part of the episode would be set in the future. But the writers didn't do that, all they did was frame the finale within an episode of TNG to confirm its place once and for all because those fans still couldn't accept much reconciliation between Enterprise and the rest of the chronology (and also, because they couldn't trust Berman and Braga anyway, which is understandable). Of course, that's not to defend the quality or execution of the episode, but just the rationale.

In all, much of Trek as a whole involves trying to negotiate what facts one is willing to accept or overlook for the sake of the larger picture. I think many of those consistencies in the Abrams movies can be written off as such based on individual preference. I'm willing to overlook Chekov's age or small details like that, much like I can overlook Chekov not being on board during Space Seed or the size of Data's emotion chip constantly changing.

I finally watched Into Darkness last night.

I guess I'm in the minority of people that actually liked it? Or is it just Trekkies that hate the new stuff?

I liked it initially, but I like it less and less with each repeat viewing. But to each their own! If you like it, then cheers.

[BeastieRunner]

I liked it initially, but I like it less and less with each repeat viewing. But to each their own! If you like it, then cheers.

That's the thing, I've seen NuTrek maybe 3-4 times total and probably will only see Into Darkness that many times too.

[Cometman]

I finally watched Into Darkness last night.

I guess I'm in the minority of people that actually liked it? Or is it just Trekkies that hate the new stuff?

You stumbled into a good point. I imagine that for anyone who does not know Trek history the two new movies were very good.