Star Trek: All of Em

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

The reason I say Nemesis is non canon is that it really removes a lot of the ds9 character development for Worf. He was a first officer on two different ships at the same time, then an ambassador then goes back to being a tactical officer and at best a 2nd officer?

I thought it was canon. The books are not canon but Riker is captain of the Ttan in them. As promised in the movie.

[Pinsir]

Ive always wondered

why didn't the ferangi get involved in the dominion war? they had motive to. The profit they could gain from new relations with Klingons and the federation. And the dominion committed acts of aggression against them. They kidnapped the Nagus's wife.

And why wouldn't Rom as Nagus want to get involved. He knew firsthand the dominion had to be stopped....

Despite their appearance in TNG, since then they were overwhelmingly portrayed as ineffectual in military matters.

[Cyke]

Ive always wondered

why didn't the ferangi get involved in the dominion war? they had motive to. The profit they could gain from new relations with Klingons and the federation. And the dominion committed acts of aggression against them. They kidnapped the Nagus's wife.

And why wouldn't Rom as Nagus want to get involved. He knew firsthand the dominion had to be stopped....

The Ferengi chose neutrality so that they could trade with both sides of the war and thus profit -- the reason why there was a Ferengi presence on the station was because they did the same thing during the Occupation with the Cardassians and the Bajorans. Rule of Acquisition #34: War is Good for Business, and the Dominion War was among the largest wars the AQ had ever seen.

Additionally, they also see themselves as above war -- they never actually fought in a large scale war and thus consider themselves to be morally superior to the Federation in this regard (the same way the Federation sees itself as morally superior to the Ferengi because the Federation isn't as greedy or profit-driven), so there's an interesting dynamic there. Rather, if there is some sort of large scale conflict, the Ferengi will try to apply economic pressure to get the other participants to the bargaining table, and then try to influence negotiations so that the Ferengi can make the most profit (even if they aren't the major players in a war).

If you watch Game of Thrones, i suppose in this sense that they're kind of comparable to the Iron Bank, though the Ferengi are a nation whereas the Iron Bank is a corporation. On the surface, they're both neutral, but if you show how they'll profit from the long game, they'll try to influence international politics.

[Gryphon]

The Ferengi chose neutrality so that they could trade with both sides of the war and thus profit -- the reason why there was a Ferengi presence on the station was because they did the same thing during the Occupation with the Cardassians and the Bajorans. Rule of Acquisition #34: War is Good for Business, and the Dominion War was among the largest wars the AQ had ever seen.

Additionally, they also see themselves as above war -- they never actually fought in a large scale war and thus consider themselves to be morally superior to the Federation in this regard (the same way the Federation sees itself as morally superior to the Ferengi because the Federation isn't as greedy or profit-driven), so there's an interesting dynamic there. Rather, if there is some sort of large scale conflict, the Ferengi will try to apply economic pressure to get the other participants to the bargaining table, and then try to influence negotiations so that the Ferengi can make the most profit (even if they aren't the major players in a war).

If you watch Game of Thrones, i suppose in this sense that they're kind of comparable to the Iron Bank, though the Ferengi are a nation whereas the Iron Bank is a corporation. On the surface, they're both neutral, but if you show how they'll profit from the long game, they'll try to influence international politics.

But the dominion had attacked the ferengi by kidnapping the grand nagus's wife and then the ferengi who rescued her killed several Jem'Hadar and a vorta and took another vorta prisoner for the federation. There would be no trade with the dominion after that

[Pharozonk]

Does TOS start of slow in season 1 and get better as it goes on? I watched the first episode and felt it was a little slow.

[fmvgamer]

Does TOS start of slow in season 1 and get better as it goes on? I watched the first episode and felt it was a little slow.

Most shows start off slow , all star trek series started off a bit slow. It took a while before DS9 found its footing , same goes for TNG , Enterprise , even voyager.

[Cyke]

But the dominion had attacked the ferengi by kidnapping the grand nagus's wife and then the ferengi who rescued her killed several Jem'Hadar and a vorta and took another vorta prisoner for the federation. There would be no trade with the dominion after that

To which Zek had ordered a team of mercenaries to rescue her; and even then, the Ferengi still maintained a stance of neutrality and never outright stated which side they supported after that incident with, while the Dominion never declared outright hostility or friction or banning of any sort of trade whatsoever. It seemed that both sides merely dropped the matter. As well, neutrality itself does not necessarily mean good relations -- the Klingons despised the Ferengi despite officially there being no history of bad blood whatsoever. Additionally, they might not have to deal with the Dominion financially directly -- influencing a power here and there could be enough, as long as the Ferengi Alliance's banks filled up. After all, the other side wasn't just the Dominion; the other side included the Breen, the Sona, and the Cardassians, all of whom were still independent nations (the Cardassians and Ferengi Alliance's war neutrality, after all, was why Quark's business could stay on DS9 during the second occupation. Thus, Quark could do business with that side of the war, even if he didn't deal with the Dominion themselves directly).

But on the Dominion side, killing a few Jem'Hadar and a vorta doesn't seem to be a big deal to them: the Cardassians did the same before the war, and they ended up being willing "allies" (in quotes because we know the Dominion were really manipulating them). And before the war, they kept trying to bargain with the Alpha Quadrant powers, even after all the damage Sisko and crew had wrought over the years.

[Xalfrea]

After reading the Q Gambit, I've kind of been on a Trek kick lately, and decided to finally watch some of SF Debris's Star Trek stuff, specifically his DS9 reviews because that was the first Trek show I have the earliest memory watching.

Now I wish more than ever that I actually followed watching DS9 when I was a kid, but I believe I was too young at that time. Objectively speaking, as I haven't seen enough of the other series to give my own opinion, I would like to say that DS9 is probably the best all around, but the sticking point in making that comparison for me is TNG. I feel while TOS retains its status as the one that started it all and being an important and progressive program in its day, that's not enough for me to call it the absolute best. Voyager and Enterprise are certainly at the bottom.

DS9 and TNG though...hard to say which one is the better of the two.

[Cometman]

After reading the Q Gambit, I've kind of been on a Trek kick lately, and decided to finally watch some of SF Debris's Star Trek stuff, specifically his DS9 reviews because that was the first Trek show I have the earliest memory watching.

Now I wish more than ever that I actually followed watching DS9 when I was a kid, but I believe I was too young at that time. Objectively speaking, as I haven't seen enough of the other series to give my own opinion, I would like to say that DS9 is probably the best all around, but the sticking point in making that comparison for me is TNG. I feel while TOS retains its status as the one that started it all and being an important and progressive program in its day, that's not enough for me to call it the absolute best. Voyager and Enterprise are certainly at the bottom.

DS9 and TNG though...hard to say which one is the better of the two.

I grew up with TOS and still enjoy it. My wife and I are currently re-watching DS9 and I am going through TOS with my 8 yr old son.
If I had to pick between DS9 and TNG I would pick TNG. Overall TNG had better character development and stories(my opinion). For me the low points of DS9 are Dax and Sisko. The Dax character had great potential but the casting of Farrell was a poor choice. Same for Sisko. I enjoy all of the Trek series but think TNG is a little better than DS9.

[Kyer]

After reading the Q Gambit, I've kind of been on a Trek kick lately, and decided to finally watch some of SF Debris's Star Trek stuff, specifically his DS9 reviews because that was the first Trek show I have the earliest memory watching.

Now I wish more than ever that I actually followed watching DS9 when I was a kid, but I believe I was too young at that time. Objectively speaking, as I haven't seen enough of the other series to give my own opinion, I would like to say that DS9 is probably the best all around, but the sticking point in making that comparison for me is TNG. I feel while TOS retains its status as the one that started it all and being an important and progressive program in its day, that's not enough for me to call it the absolute best. Voyager and Enterprise are certainly at the bottom.

DS9 and TNG though...hard to say which one is the better of the two.

Overall foundation wise I prefer TNG..."Space: The Final Frontier..." exploration and all that. However, really loved the characters and the whole 'Good Standing Up To Evil' idea of DS9. So I'd go with DS9. TNG loses out with me by a hair because of things like the episode with Data exploring sexuality with whats-her-name....the security woman (sorry, I forget.) It had me slapping my forehead and groaning because...did they really have to go there? (Attempts at titillation bore the crap out of me.)

Will forever love TOS for episodes like The Trouble With Tribbles, Piece Of The Action, Guardian of Forever, Devil In The Dark; plus Spock/Bones snark contests, Scotty bemoaning his poor bairns, (*cough* and those times Kirk got the snot beat out of his bombastic self.)

[Zero Hunter]

After reading the Q Gambit, I've kind of been on a Trek kick lately, and decided to finally watch some of SF Debris's Star Trek stuff, specifically his DS9 reviews because that was the first Trek show I have the earliest memory watching.

Now I wish more than ever that I actually followed watching DS9 when I was a kid, but I believe I was too young at that time. Objectively speaking, as I haven't seen enough of the other series to give my own opinion, I would like to say that DS9 is probably the best all around, but the sticking point in making that comparison for me is TNG. I feel while TOS retains its status as the one that started it all and being an important and progressive program in its day, that's not enough for me to call it the absolute best. Voyager and Enterprise are certainly at the bottom.

DS9 and TNG though...hard to say which one is the better of the two.

This is not even a contest for me. It is DS9 by a mile. To me it kept everything I loved about Star Trek and got rid of the things I didn't like about TNG like the fact that everyone had become Frasier Crane in space. The characters in DS9 always felt more like real people than the ones on TNG who always come off as some idealized version of what someone from the 1960's would think people should be like in the future.

[Cyke]

TNG is my first love, but DS9 to me is the more preferable show. Even getting rid of the ginormous action scenes, the characters grew (S7 versions are much different than S1 versions. For example, Bashir went from cocky, naive surgeon to mature, observant medic; Kira stayed tough but grew more affectionate to the point that she carried a child for the O'Briens; Sisko went from unsure commander to essentially a battlefield admiral but remained a devoted father; even Worf improved from TNG, etc), the storylines became more and more intricate, and I feel the show made more daring risks than any other Trek show until perhaps Enterprise.

But one of my favorite things is the sheer size of its supporting cast, a luxury afforded by a stationary location. It was one of the first genre hour-long shows (minus soaps, of course) to make use of such a large cast, later seen in Battlestar Galatica and most successfully in Game of Thrones.

To me, the TNG cast is like the Avengers or the Justice League of the Berman era -- considered the best and always in reverence, and no one doubts their skill or power. But to me the DS9 cast (including the recurring -- some of them appeared more than some of the regulars!) is like the X-Men -- numerous, considered the black sheep, but delivering some of the most complicated, heartfelt, satisfying, and riskiest of all the Treks.

[The Darknight Detective]

TNG loses out with me by a hair because of things like the episode with Data exploring sexuality with whats-her-name....the security woman (sorry, I forget.) It had me slapping my forehead and groaning because...did they really have to go there? (Attempts at titillation bore the crap out of me.)

You're thinking of Tasha Yar. Yeah, I think it was that episode that I stopped watching the show until the first Professor Moriarty episode the following season. Compared to TOS, that first season is really fell flat... the uniforms (especially Troi's),Beverley Crusher (I started finding Gates McFadden very sexy and likeable when she came back later on, but she was annoying originally)... even Picard was too cantankerous for my tastes at that point. The worst, however, was Riker. I hated that stupid smirk of his and the weird way his arms moved. But things started getting better during the second season and everything came together by the third one. I even grew to like "Number One."

[byc]

I am biased, but I think DS9 is better.

However, DS9 also was the beneficiary of a better circumstance. DS9 was dealing with war for most of it's run, and wars provide great opportunities for stories.

TNG had the benefit of being the director successor to the Trek franchise. It tackled some hard subjects, but DS9 went farther and force examination of governments, religion, and morality.

[Joker]

Wow, saying Avery Brooks was bad casting is the craziest thing I've ever heard regarding DS9.