Star Trek: All of Em

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, Voyager is kind of meh throughout. It does improve a bit in season 3 like most TNG-era Treks but not by much.


Funny thing is Tom Paris was originally intended to be Locarno from TNG's The First Duty, hence them hiring the same actor. However at the last minute this got changed.

[titanfan]

All the Captains make mistakes during their tenure, but the amount of crazy $hit that Janeway does during the series was waaay over the top. One of my favorite theory (that they never did) was that Janeway was really a Section 31 Agent, because that would have made sense in a bigger context.

Voyager really seemed to suffer from a lot the characters just not meshing. No one really liked Neelix and Kes. Chakotay and Kim were super boring. The Doctor had limitations given his character. Tuvok had his moments but I feel like they didn't know how to give a Vulcan that wasn't human any sort of conflict. Only Torres and Paris had any real sort of long term story arcs. Seven gets credit for "saving" the show because the was the "hot chick" but she also had a uniquely interesting conflict that the show desperately needed.

[TriggerWarning]

Seven gets credit for "saving" the show because the was the "hot chick" but she also had a uniquely interesting conflict that the show desperately needed.

She is about the only reason some of me wants to watch the show. The Picard trailer looked amazing and she is in it so it makes me feel like I have to watch Voyager to actually understand her story. All I know of her beyond her costume is that she was a Borg they somehow humanized.

[WebLurker]

About Voyager. So I'm binging Deep Space Nine right now as I only saw the first three seasons way back when it came out. Now I'm almost done with season 5 and the Maquis storyline has been recurring. Which made me recall that Voyager, a show I've only seen perhaps 5-10 episodes of, involved the Maquis so I took a break from DS9 for a minute to watch the premiere which I know I saw when it debuted 25 years or so ago but never since.

To which I'm holy crap this is bad. It has a great premise and the characters other than Neelix and Kes (the Jar Jars of this show) seems great but the writing is HORRIBLE and nonsensical. I get why they brought Tom Paris on the mission but no way they allow a disgraced criminal and traitor to wear a Starfleet uniform. He would have been in civilian stuff. Then no way they allow him to go on the first away mission when you have lots of actual crew members, aka non traitor criminals, to go. I understand what they want to do with his character arc and they needed to establish his redemption arc but at least make it believable. Write it in a way where he's forced to go on the mission rather than Janeaway choosing him over some of her actual officers and crew. Then the nonsense at the end where she makes him a lieutenant. She makes him an officer OVER many of her own crew. I can see her giving him the same chance she is giving the Maquis but make him an ensign and let him work his way up.

I did always wonder why he wasn't given the provisional comissions like the rest of the Maquis crew members were (you can tell, since Maquis characters like Chakotay and Torres get their own unique rank pin instead of the usual pips); I guess my assumption was that Paris was officially assigned to Voyager, so he had an "official" position for the duration of the mission, which got extended by their getting trapped. The Maquis had no official position beyond Janeway's own authority, so provisional. Not sure that makes complete sense, but eh, just spitballing. (While this may not have been in mind at the time, the story arc with Paris and Torres does work better with a Starfleet and Maquis instead of two Maquis.)

As far as why Paris was made a senior staff member, the crew was pretty badly decimated in the pilot, so they were pretty short-handed as was. While Paris was never fully explained like Chakotay (as the Maquis captain, first officer had him working directly with the captain which was good for the alliance), Torres (she was qualified and giving a Maquis a position of authority was a critical demonstration of trust), Neelix (while not an "officer," he was the local Delta Quadrant expert), the Doctor (the entire medial staff was dead), or Seven (maybe not an "officer," but an important specialist), he may have been best qualified for the helmsman position and sundry.

Not sure if I'll go on when I finish DS9 if the premiere is any indication of quality of this show. I don't recall much of the the other episodes I've seen other than one where some of the characters get turned into slugs or something, one or two with the Borg and 7 of 9, and then I know I saw the finale though I don't recall much other than they got back to Earth.

Does the writing improve?

I rather liked VOY myself. I will say that around the time that Seven shows up is when the show gets out of its growing pains.

[Xalfrea]

Oh Voyager, Voyager.

Season 3 is where things start to look much more up for the show. Yes it would still have problems but at the very least a lot of the early problems would be ditched.

[nx01a]

I loved Kes! Neelix needed to go, though.
I'll say that VOY gave me my favourite Trek episode[s]: Scorpion.
I'll also say that VOY gave us Threshold and 11.59.
There's good and bad in it as with any Trek show but I think the good outweighs the bad and the stupid.

Re: the 4th Pine movie... I was OK with the alternate reality movie excursions while there was nothing else Trek-wise to enjoy. Now that Trek's back on 'TV', the Pineverse can wrap itself up neatly and go away.

[beatboks]

When it comes to Voyager a lot of what was put into the Premiere didn't translate as well as it should have from the book (at least the original printing, i know they some times rerelease these things for a movie or tv show. I dont know of that happened). Some stuff was glanced over far too much. For example the only reason that Tom was really there was that Janeway was such a loyal friend to his father and was actually trying to, on his father's behalf bring him back to the fold. There was a chapter in the book where Tuvok pointed out other marquee options but Janeway was steadfast in her decision.

I'd read several of the books of Voyager long before the series ever aired (and unfortunately most of those books never made it to air).

There's no denying imo that of the main original cast only Torres got developed on screen to match how she was portrayed in the books. Even with her portrayal her skills as an engineer werent shown as sharp as they were in the books.

Chakotay in the books was easily my favorite characyer (with Tortes not far behind). It played more on his native culture than we saw on screen.

I enjoyed Voyager quite a bit because I had a love for the characters long before it ever aired.

I just wish theyd make a series of the IKS Gorkon. I seriously recommend the trilogy to any fan of the klingon empire

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries..._st_0743457145

I'm glas this thread made me search that. Last time I went looking for another IKs Gorkon book I had all three. Now that I kjow about burning house I'll be getting that on kindle ditectly. Looks like mu current book might get delayed

[Sutekh]

I loved Kes! Neelix needed to go, though.

[smallvoice]I liked Kes better than Seven of Breast. I feel like I have to turn in my mancard now...[/smallvoice]

As for Voyager overall, I wanted to like several of the character, but they either barely existed (Harry Kim) and got little attention or focus, or the acting / writing was so bad I wanted to slap them silly (Janeway's draconian proclamations, where she would invariably criticize the hell out of her crew for thinking outside the Federation rules-box, and then, ten minutes later, break said rules even more egregiously herself, Paris' annoying clenched face, which seemed to be his only expression, since he came from the 'Tom Welling School of Acting by Clenching My Jaw' to express any sort of feeling from aggravation to determination to anguish).

The thing I liked most about DS9 was that the stationary setting meant that they really got to dive deep on the various races and cultures (Bajorans, Cardassians, Ferengi, Klingons) involved, and had less than the usual sort of 'culture of the week' that you get to see for 38 minutes, and then, quite possibly, never see again. Voyager was the exact opposite. Everyone they met in the Delta Quadrant, they were zipping away from at Warp 5 by the end of the episode, making super-unlikely that anything we learned about them would ever remotely matter again (and making increasingly ludicrous when we'd see someone like Seska ten episodes later, when the Voyager should be light-years out of Kaizon space...).

When the show has that built-in limitation, of few if any recurring guest-stars or cultures, the main crew / cast has to be super-interesting (and not riddled with super-annoying folk like Overwrought Neelix and Doctor Curmudgeonly) to make up for it.

And they weren't, IMO.

[Beaddle]

Taste is in the eye of the beholder, but there's already precedent for him joining the Reliant, and Star Trek loves its references, especially the Abrams era.

I'm not saying this is the only route, but that route is also true to the character and franchise history. That's what removes it from being tasteless. If anything, the Kelvinverse Chekov is portrayed as much more of a wunderkind prodigy than the Prime version, and so moving on makes more sense. Plus, on a metatextual level, speaking of his achievements and would also mirror Yelchin's own considerable growth before his own untimely passing.

If anything, placing the character as a vehicle for the writers and actors to speak well of the dearly departed actor is as high a tribute as you can get without breaking the fourth wall.

Plus, saying Chekov had moved on to another post, and having Marcus or Jaylah join the crew, are not mutually exclusive.

The problem with saying he left star fleet or was moved to another ship is that it creates what we know is a false alarm in our heads and its a way to not address the elephant in the room. Hollywood has moved past this story style for a long time. sadly and painfully if an actor dies, they do kill their character off and have an episode as a tribute to the character and actor. I think Riverdale is the recent film/TV story to show this with Luke Perry, I remember Glee did the same with Cory Monteith and even Star Trek killed TOS Spock Prime off because of Leonard Nimoy.

[Godzilla2099]

Voyager had some good ideas, but poor execution which made it an overall mediocre series in my books

Janeway/Chakotay: Their characters should have been reversed. I understand a captain taking risks, but many of Janeway's Decisions were very brash and quick. Chakotay on the other hand (who I thought had the most potential in the show), you have this guy from a rebel squad with a face tattoo, but he was far too soft. Janeway should have been a grizzled veteran while an angry Chakotay learned more from her little by little.

Characters: Many of them I just didn't care for. I found them bland

The Borg: While I liked Species 8472, overall I didn't like how Voyager portrayed the Borg.

[Exciter]

[smallvoice]I liked Kes better than Seven of Breast. I feel like I have to turn in my mancard now...[/smallvoice].

Funny thing, when I was watching Voyager as a kid when it was airing, I thought Seven basically saved the show and was the best character (for obvious reasons). I recently watched every Star Trek series again with my wife (we watched Discovery season 1 together and I had to prove to her that Trek was actually good). When we got up to Voyager she liked Kes and I assumed she was going to dislike Seven because of the eye-candy thing. Turns out, she loved Seven - she was her favorite character. Meanwhile I, watching as an adult, still liked the character but found it a bit annoying how the show just started revolving around her and the entire male cast had to take turns falling in love with her.

But I always found Neelix annoying and still do.

[H-E-D]

I still find it hilarious that they named a series something that abbreviates to STD.

[Farealmer]

I still find it hilarious that they named a series something that abbreviates to STD.

They kinda did before. STDS9

[WebLurker]

I still find it hilarious that they named a series something that abbreviates to STD.

The abbreviation is actually "DSC."

[Xalfrea]

I really hate the STD abbreviation because it just gives the Discovery haters even more reason to hate. Seen more than one comment how Discovery is about as enjoyable as an actual STD.

For all the flack Voyager gets, I will give it one thing. At least it's not Enterprise.