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  1. #571
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    TNG Season 1 had some of the series lows but it also had The Battle, Datalore, 11001001, Too Short a Season, Heart of Glory, and Conspiracy.

  2. #572
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    All they need to do is say he was promoted and joined the Reliant or something like that.
    This is what I didn't understand about Star Trek 2. I think since Sulu eventually was a Captain by Star Trek 6, he should have been the one to be the first officer on the Reliant in Star Trek 2, and it would have made more sense that he would have been the one to remember Khan, since Sulu was actually on the show since the very beginning (although I don't remember if he was actually in the "Space Seed" epiosde).
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  3. #573
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    This is what I didn't understand about Star Trek 2. I think since Sulu eventually was a Captain by Star Trek 6, he should have been the one to be the first officer on the Reliant in Star Trek 2, and it would have made more sense that he would have been the one to remember Khan, since Sulu was actually on the show since the very beginning (although I don't remember if he was actually in the "Space Seed" epiosde).
    Not sure what the thought process was. I do know the novelizations of 2 - 4 have the idea that Sulu was on track to captain the Excelsior, all written well before movie 6.
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  4. #574
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yeah-the Excelsior is said to be mentioned in II's deleted material, although the actual scene hasn't shown up in any viewable form. Vonda was known to embellish her adaptations of the films a great deal, but I think this was something filmed, as there's a weird cut in the film when Sulu is talking ("I'm delighted...any chance to get onboard the Enterprise...."). I think it's just said to be a ship Sulu is to take command of, and not anything special. Then III makes it out to be a super-experimental thing, and in III and IV Sulu comments on it but there's no word on him taking command.

    In an earlier version of VI they were going to have Sulu be a shuttle cab driver(!) in a sequence in which the crew are shown to be living separate, semi-retired lives before being recalled to Starfleet, instead of the whole Sulu/Excelsior sequence which opened the film. There's actually some dialogue left in the film that kind of supports this, hinting that the crew hasn't been on the ship or in active duty for quite a while. (McCoy, for example, has no idea that Sulu is no longer part of the crew; Scotty is asked if he found the engine room alright etc. and the helmsman role is only just filled.)
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  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Yeah-the Excelsior is said to be mentioned in II's deleted material, although the actual scene hasn't shown up in any viewable form. Vonda was known to embellish her adaptations of the films a great deal, but I think this was something filmed, as there's a weird cut in the film when Sulu is talking ("I'm delighted...any chance to get onboard the Enterprise...."). I think it's just said to be a ship Sulu is to take command of, and not anything special. Then III makes it out to be a super-experimental thing, and in III and IV Sulu comments on it but there's no word on him taking command.

    In an earlier version of VI they were going to have Sulu be a shuttle cab driver(!) in a sequence in which the crew are shown to be living separate, semi-retired lives before being recalled to Starfleet, instead of the whole Sulu/Excelsior sequence which opened the film. There's actually some dialogue left in the film that kind of supports this, hinting that the crew hasn't been on the ship or in active duty for quite a while. (McCoy, for example, has no idea that Sulu is no longer part of the crew; Scotty is asked if he found the engine room alright etc. and the helmsman role is only just filled.)
    I've heard that the opening with the crew getting back together after semi-retirement was scrapped because they didn't have the budget for it when filming 6. Weird that blowing up a moon was the cheaper option, but I suppose with Shatner and the rests' salaries at that point even a special effects shot could seem cheap. The effects were overall worse than the effects of TMP and WOK despite both of those being about a decade older.

  6. #576
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    The novelization of Wrath of Khan establishes Chekhov as being a low level ensign who leads a rebellion against Khan below decks, which in part leads to his promotion to the bridge crew.

    George Takei has talked about how he wanted Sulu to be the captain of the Excelsior, but that William Shatner was the one who put the kibosh on it. Shatner in turn, has answered that he thought he was doing Takei a favor because, even though it would be a step up for the character of Sulu, the move would give Takei much less screen time.

  7. #577
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Yeah-the Excelsior is said to be mentioned in II's deleted material, although the actual scene hasn't shown up in any viewable form. Vonda was known to embellish her adaptations of the films a great deal, but I think this was something filmed, as there's a weird cut in the film when Sulu is talking ("I'm delighted...any chance to get onboard the Enterprise...."). I think it's just said to be a ship Sulu is to take command of, and not anything special. Then III makes it out to be a super-experimental thing, and in III and IV Sulu comments on it but there's no word on him taking command.
    Never noticed the weird cut myself, but okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    In an earlier version of VI they were going to have Sulu be a shuttle cab driver(!) in a sequence in which the crew are shown to be living separate, semi-retired lives before being recalled to Starfleet, instead of the whole Sulu/Excelsior sequence which opened the film. There's actually some dialogue left in the film that kind of supports this, hinting that the crew hasn't been on the ship or in active duty for quite a while. (McCoy, for example, has no idea that Sulu is no longer part of the crew; Scotty is asked if he found the engine room alright etc. and the helmsman role is only just filled.)
    Will need to see that again; don't specifically recall any notes that hinted at characters coming back after retirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    The novelization of Wrath of Khan establishes Chekhov as being a low level ensign who leads a rebellion against Khan below decks, which in part leads to his promotion to the bridge crew.
    And the Greg Cox books have Chekov being part of the security detail that escorted Khan and co. off the ship to Ceti Alpha V, the Kirk autobiography has him as a witness to Khan's wedding, and one of the Strange New World short stories had him just randomly encountering Khan in the hall prior to Khan's insurrection as they went about their own business. It's one of the favorite things to explain away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    George Takei has talked about how he wanted Sulu to be the captain of the Excelsior, but that William Shatner was the one who put the kibosh on it. Shatner in turn, has answered that he thought he was doing Takei a favor because, even though it would be a step up for the character of Sulu, the move would give Takei much less screen time.
    Takei also hoped to get his own Excelsior series, as I recall. Can't say I'm sorry that the '90s era of the franchise didn't turn out as it did, but it was a decent idea. As far as Shanter's helping Takei, have to say that while Sulu did have less screen time in VI and I do miss that, he did get better scenes then he did just driving the bus.
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  8. #578
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    He did get a bit extra with the Flashback episode of Voyager which revealed that Tuvok was part of the Excelsior crew (Kind of funny since Ross was also part of the Enterprise-B crew in the next film although clearly not Tuvok). It also killed off the bearded crewmember who is clearly alive at the end of the film. Oops!
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  9. #579
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    TNG Season 1 had some of the series lows but it also had The Battle, Datalore, 11001001, Too Short a Season, Heart of Glory, and Conspiracy.
    I love all of those!

    The Neutral Zone and Arsenal of Freedom are also underrated S1 gems, imho...
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  10. #580
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The Romulan part of Neutral Zone was very good, although the cryogenic stuff was a bit lame.
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  11. #581
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    TNG Season 1 had some of the series lows but it also had The Battle, Datalore, 11001001, Too Short a Season, Heart of Glory, and Conspiracy.
    It's not enough to lift that season out of the TNG basement, though. In fact, this summarizes my feelings about that season perfectly:



    The expression on Riker's face must have resulted in a thousand takes as the others couldn't stop laughing. Yet, they actually, inexplicably, used it in that Season 2 clip job showcasing Number One.
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  12. #582
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^

    Symbiosis falls under so-bad-it's-good for me; Tasha's "Just Say No" speech to Wesley is my favorite part.
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  13. #583
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    ^ ^ ^
    Symbiosis falls under so-bad-it's-good for me; Tasha's "Just Say No" speech to Wesley is my favorite part.
    Don't forget Picard's masterful interpretation of and speech to Dr. Crusher about the Prime Directive!
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    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  14. #584
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Add 'Home Soil' to that list of TNG s1 favourites for me. Action, philosophical questioning, new life and a new civilization, the crew throwing themselves around the bridge... Perfection. And there's something genuine about Crusher and Troi's words to the crystal brain that I've always loved.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  15. #585
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Most interesting thing about Symbiosis is that it has the actors who played David Marcus and Joachim.
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