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  1. #601
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Never quite understood Roddenberry's insistance on "no conflict" in the initial stages of TNG. Pretty much a good chunk of TOS was the "big three" arguing with each other, or the guest crewman of the week questioning the Captain's orders.


    Even the rest of Starfleet was shown to be a bit messed up from time to time. There's so many episodes dealing with corrupt captains and admirals that it pretty much spread to the rest of the franchise (including some of the movies) as a cliche.
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  2. #602
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    DC Fontana just passed away. Apart from writing or script-editing many TOS episodes she was also influential in TNG's early seasons.
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  3. #603
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    DC Fontana just passed away. Apart from writing or script-editing many TOS episodes she was also influential in TNG's early seasons.
    That's a big loss for fans of TOS. Her name, outside of Gene Roddenberry of course, was the one I remembered the most from the non-acting side when I was a kid (though I thought she was a he for years - had I only recognized her when she "appeared" on an episode of TAS ).

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  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    DC Fontana just passed away. Apart from writing or script-editing many TOS episodes she was also influential in TNG's early seasons.
    That's sad to hear. She did so much for Star Trek as well as science fiction in general. She wrote episodes for Logan's Run, Buck Rogers, Six Million Dollar Man, and Land of the Lost. She also wrote eps for The Waltons as well.

  5. #605
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Never quite understood Roddenberry's insistance on "no conflict" in the initial stages of TNG. Pretty much a good chunk of TOS was the "big three" arguing with each other, or the guest crewman of the week questioning the Captain's orders.


    Even the rest of Starfleet was shown to be a bit messed up from time to time. There's so many episodes dealing with corrupt captains and admirals that it pretty much spread to the rest of the franchise (including some of the movies) as a cliche.
    As ST blew up throughout the 1970's, many fans latched onto the utopian aspects of 23rd century Earth depicted (alluded to?) in TOS, and convinced Roddenberry that his vision made him some sort of messiah figure. A large part of TNG's "no conflict" mandate stemmed from the fact that by 1986, Roddenberry had bought into the whole "Great Bird of the Galaxy" schtick that fans had pegged him with.
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  6. #606
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    That's sad to hear. She did so much for Star Trek as well as science fiction in general. She wrote episodes for Logan's Run, Buck Rogers, Six Million Dollar Man, and Land of the Lost. She also wrote eps for The Waltons as well.
    She wrote three episodes of Babylon 5 as well.
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  7. #607
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    DC Fontana just passed away. Apart from writing or script-editing many TOS episodes she was also influential in TNG's early seasons.
    She was one of the important people to making the show what it is today.
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  8. #608
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Season 3's best for me were the Tholian Web and Enterprise Incident. Curiously I think it's also the season with the most actors that were also in Batman: Yvonne Craig, Frank Gorshin and Lee Meriweather.
    TNG Season 3 is shaped by one game changing episode= Yesterday's Enterprise.

    Just when trekkies thought they were getting bored with time travel in star trek, yesterday's enterprise reinvented the trope that made you go wow.

  9. #609
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    DC Fontana just passed away. Apart from writing or script-editing many TOS episodes she was also influential in TNG's early seasons.
    She paved the way for writers and producers like Jane Espenson, Angela Kang, and Shonda Rhimes. RIP Dorothy.

  10. #610
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    TNG Season 3 is shaped by one game changing episode= Yesterday's Enterprise.

    Just when trekkies thought they were getting bored with time travel in star trek, yesterday's enterprise reinvented the trope that made you go wow.
    Funny thing is the story was originally going to be very different. Basically, the Vulcans were using the guardian of forever to explore their own past or something, but they wind up killing Surak, which causes the Vulcans to pretty much remain barbaric and basically become the Romulans. The Enterprise D changes in a similar fashion-with Tasha Yar and everything-but it's Sarek who realizes things have changed, so he ultiametly goes back into the Guardian and becomes the historical Surak.

    The Yesterday's Enterprise element was also from another script, although in that case there were no timeline changes, but more Picard and crew grappling with the moral choice to send the ship back knowing it will be destroyed. So they kind of melded them together.


    However instead of that they decided to give Sarek a totally different story, changed the time-changing inciddent into the Enterprise-C, and have Yar go back in time but not really to replace any historical figures although she does of couse create Sela.(Makes you wonder, did Sela exist in the timeline of TNG seasons 1-3 before Yesterday's Enterprise?) and made the warring race from the Vulcans into the Klingons.


    It's been noted though that the concept of somebody replacing a historical figure was used in DS9's "Past Tense" in which Sisko became (or always was somehow?) Gabriel Bell.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 12-04-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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  11. #611
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    It's been noted though that the concept of somebody replacing a historical figure was used in DS9's "Past Tense" in which Sisko became (or always was somehow?) Gabriel Bell.
    He wasn't "always" Bell; we saw the original be killed and screw up the timeline. The end result was a "fixed" timeline, not exactly the same, but close enough that history followed the same path.
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  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    He wasn't "always" Bell; we saw the original be killed and screw up the timeline. The end result was a "fixed" timeline, not exactly the same, but close enough that history followed the same path.
    See, I always took the implication in that episode to be a closed loop. "Bell" was always Sisko. The DS9ers were always present, Bell always died, and Sisko always had to take the actions he did. The episode very much presents it as such.

  13. #613
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Except that there had to be a prime event where either Bell actually did what history said he did or Sisko got thrown back in time and decided on his own to use the dead Bell's identity (potentially not knowing what the repercussions/significance of his actions would be). The Sisko is wise. Time travel. Sigh.
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  14. #614
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    The later episode with the Federation timecops even has them calling out the 'predestination paradox' as something they hate hearing. Maybe even more than they hate jokes, but probably not more than they hate Kirk. 13 separate violations of the temporal prime directive. The man is a menace.


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  15. #615

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