Star Trek: All of Em

[DrNewGod]

What do you all think that Roddenberry would think of things like Section 31 or Insurrection? Concepts that portray the Federation as less than noble?

I think the answer in 1967 would have differed considerably from the answer in 1987.

[SJNeal]

I think the answer in 1967 would have differed considerably from the answer in 1987.

You put it much more succinctly than I did.

[superduperman]

I think the answer in 1967 would have differed considerably from the answer in 1987.

Fair point.

[green_garnish]

I think the answer in 1967 would have differed considerably from the answer in 1987.

Based on a comparison of 1967 shows, TMP, and the first couple seasons of TNG, I don't see any basis for this thought. It seems to me like he never altered his opinion of what makes Star Trek great, but the fans and those around him did.

[thwhtGuardian]

Based on a comparison of 1967 shows, TMP, and the first couple seasons of TNG, I don't see any basis for this thought. It seems to me like he never altered his opinion of what makes Star Trek great, but the fans and those around him did.

I don't know, I think there was a marked difference over time. For instance there were several episodes that featured corrupt starfleet admirals or captains in TOS illustrating that the Federation wasn't always the utopia it billed itself as, but by the time the Next Generation came about the writers were told to never show Starfleet or the Federation in a negative light.

[green_garnish]

I don't know, I think there was a marked difference over time. For instance there were several episodes that featured corrupt starfleet admirals or captains in TOS illustrating that the Federation wasn't always the utopia it billed itself as, but by the time the Next Generation came about the writers were told to never show Starfleet or the Federation in a negative light.

As I said in an earlier post, TOS had rogue officers, but no indication their was conspiracies or shadow agencies.

[thwhtGuardian]

As I said in an earlier post, TOS had rogue officers, but no indication their was conspiracies or shadow agencies.

I don't know, while never out right stated with so many evil admirals my take away was always that while Kirk and company are out on that bold and idealistic five year mission something was rotten in the state of Denmark. One or two can be brushed away as bad actors but when it becomes habitual it creates a theme of mistrust in authority.

[Vic Vega]

I don't know, while never out right stated with so many evil admirals my take away was always that while Kirk and company are out on that bold and idealistic five year mission something was rotten in the state of Denmark. One or two can be brushed away as bad actors but when it becomes habitual it creates a theme of mistrust in authority.

TOS Starfleet was less centrally controlled than TNG Starfleet. There was more of a sense of distance to send messages or ships to places. So there were more examples of Officers below flag level going nuts rather than Admirals.

If the bad actors are all in deep space, by the time you find out what they have done it's usually too late.

Garth was a Starship Captain. Starfleet did put him in an asylum but he took it over. Whoops. That other loon that tried to make a planet full of Nazis was just a Historian(!). That other nutjob, that gave phasers to a primative tribe was also a Starship Captain.

On the other hand, Commodore Stocker, the poor sap who tried to take Kirk',s command when Kirk was incapacitated and couldn't hack it, wasn't evil only inept. Commodore Matt Decker wasn't evil either, he was just racked with PTSD ( his entire crew got wiped out, no wonder he went crazy).

In TOS, it wasn't the Admirals or Commodores that were the issue. It was more that in deep space Starship Captains could become laws into themselves and apparently some did.

[superduperman]

I don't know, I think there was a marked difference over time. For instance there were several episodes that featured corrupt starfleet admirals or captains in TOS illustrating that the Federation wasn't always the utopia it billed itself as, but by the time the Next Generation came about the writers were told to never show Starfleet or the Federation in a negative light.

I know that at some point he decreed that they no longer used credits abolishing the concept of money in the Federation altogether. It was just something he handed down one day. The documentary Chaos on the Bridge about the making of TNG goes into a lot of this. That having been said, I think the guys who took over after he died kind of went too far in the other direction.

[BeastieRunner]

I am starting to see rumors that Wesley is making an appearance on Prodigy.

[WebLurker]

I don't know, while never out right stated with so many evil admirals my take away was always that while Kirk and company are out on that bold and idealistic five year mission something was rotten in the state of Denmark. One or two can be brushed away as bad actors but when it becomes habitual it creates a theme of mistrust in authority.

Probably that insane or corrupt admirals can make for a good story and, in a franchise that's been running for decades, it can easily get repeated more than would be likely ILR (recall that the fluff in one of the RPGs had a specific note to gamemasters that while insane admirals were a useful trope, that they were not representative of the majority of upright people in authority of the fleet).

[ChrisIII]

We do kind of see bad starfleet/federation in TNG as well, even fairly early on. I'm not counting conspiracy since it's obvious those admirals and officers were being mind controlled.

In season one we have Admiral Jameson; then of course Pressman and Satie, although Satie's main problem was that she was kind of super paranoid rather than corrupt. Maxwell of course is also sympathetic to a degree in a similar degree.

[superduperman]

For a supposedly utopian, enlightened, society the Federation has a lot of incompetent leadership!

[CosmiComic]

For a supposedly utopian, enlightened, society the Federation has a lot of incompetent leadership!

I guess it's a way to make drama

[Starter Set]

For a supposedly utopian, enlightened, society the Federation has a lot of incompetent leadership!

You can be as enlightened as a Buddha and still be an incompetent leader. Enlightenment doesn't magically give leadership skills.