Why does DC like killing off characters so much?

[Anthony Shaw]

Might as well be, I'm surprised he didn't tap this story for a re-imagining.
The story although purely plot driven, underlying it all hinges on not the act of Robin dying, but Batman's constant fear of Robin dying.
It's that a clever writer would tap into.


Although, even more interesting the issue debuts DC's Ant-Man, little guy in a red costume, came out about the same (maybe a few months after) Marvel's did. LOL!

[Looks at self in the Mirror]

You really do learn something new every day.

[byrd156]

I find it appropriate that this thread is brought back when HIC has a new issue out.

[Frontier]

I think the question should be why DC seems to want to keep killing off Titans characters.

[hareluyafan1]

Because it’s a way of getting people invested. People don’t buy stories “just because” unless the character is Batman or Spider-Man. Everyone else needs a hook to get people’s attention.

Rubbish.

I only buy Aquaman comics because I like Dolphin. I only buy Swamp Thing because I like Abby Arcane. Every character has fans that love them and read the stories for them, not just the title characters.

[king81992]

I think the question should be why DC seems to want to keep killing off Titans characters.

People say that Didio hates legacy characters and put out a hit on the Titans but that's not exactly true.

The Titans have been Canon fodder since Johns run.There was a time from like 2004-Pre New 52 where Titans were dying every other issue.

I just think that DC is doing this on purpose to troll fans.

[Dred]

People say that Didio hates legacy characters and put out a hit on the Titans but that's not exactly true.

The Titans have been Canon fodder since Johns run.There was a time from like 2004-Pre New 52 where Titans were dying every other issue.

I just think that DC is doing this on purpose to troll fans.

2004 is literally when Didio came into power, dude. He joined the company in 02 but became VP and de-facto lead editor in 2004 -- the same position he has to this day. That's why everyone associates it with him. One of the first big things he did was have them get rid of Wally and start lobbying for the death of Dick.

[king81992]

2004 is literally when Didio came into power, dude. He joined the company in 02 but became VP and de-facto lead editor in 2004 -- the same position he has to this day. That's why everyone associates it with him. One of the first big things he did was have them get rid of Wally and start lobbying for the death of Dick.

Was it Didio who ordered Johns and the writers who followed him to kill off Titans like crazy?

I always got the impression that Johns decided to fodderize the Titans and his successors followed his lead.

[Frontier]

Was it Didio who ordered Johns and the writers who followed him to kill off Titans like crazy?

I always got the impression that Johns decided to fodderize the Titans and his successors followed his lead.

The only time I remember Johns using the Titans as fodder was in Infinite Crisis, which I guess did set the trend for Titans getting used as cannon fodder in an event.

[Dred]

Was it Didio who ordered Johns and the writers who followed him to kill off Titans like crazy?

I always got the impression that Johns decided to fodderize the Titans and his successors followed his lead.

Yes. Didio has been gunning to kill the third generation since literally day 1. This has been a known fact for ages. He has said dozens, nay, hundreds of times over the years that he prefers the satellite league era league to any of their counterpoints (No Roy, No Dick, No Donna, No Wally, No Kyle) and thinks that generation of sidekicks are problems because they age up Superman and Batman (he doesn't even mention Wonder Woman in these conversations, go figure). This isn't some breathtaking discovery. This has been the case for nearly 15 years. It is not an accident that Wally's very, very successful Flash run and Johns' tenure on the character was rushed to a finish, cut short, and removed from the line within a year of Didio showing up. If you think Johns wanted to get rid of Wally then you do not know Johns.

Johns is certainly complicit in his murder tallying. I've never seen him rally against it. But this is the man whose favorite characters are Wally and Conner Kent. He at least has a stake in legacy characters. Didio not so much. Didio only wants later generation legacies because they've been retooled to be young enough to keep Batman/Superman not so old. Wally and Dick being grown men with wards of their own and progressing their lives? Not on his watch.

[Dr. Ellingham]

What's interesting is that this ins't new at all. Unless you started reading comics pre-1975, this has been part of the deal all along. In the far more innocent Bronze age, for example:

In 1979 DC killed off the Earth 2 / Golden Age Batman, Mister Terrific and Iris West. In 1985 they killed off the Earth 2 / Golden Age Superman, Barry Allen, Supergirl and all characters from the larger multiverse.

By the time you get to the 1990s, the death toll moved faster and faster - DC killed off Superman (briefly), Oliver Queen, almost every Green Lantern character that existed before 1990, except Guy and John, and scores of secondary characters.

Point being - DC / Marvel have been doing this for decades. Is it that you're new to this, or that it's only now affecting your favorite characters?

[Dred]

What's interesting is that this ins't new at all. Unless you started reading comics pre-1975, this has been part of the deal all along. In the far more innocent Bronze age, for example:

In 1979 DC killed off the Earth 2 / Golden Age Batman, Mister Terrific and Iris West. In 1985 they killed off the Earth 2 / Golden Age Superman, Barry Allen, Supergirl and all characters from the larger multiverse.

By the time you get to the 1990s, the death toll moved faster and faster - DC killed off Superman (briefly), Oliver Queen, almost every Green Lantern character that existed before 1990, except Guy and John, and scores of secondary characters.

Point being - DC / Marvel have been doing this for decades. Is it that you're new to this, or that it's only now affecting your favorite characters?

Phasing out old characters to make way for the new is a lot different than constantly killing and reviving the younger characters as vain shock value while leaving the "real" heroes untouchable.

Atleast in some of those example the characters were treated with a level of dignity and respect that certain characters (coughTitanscough) never get. Barry and Supergirl died saving the universe. Superman's death was treated as the biggest event in comics history. GA Superman's for real death was in Infinite Crisis and was handled well. Even Oliver went out saving thousands of people and knowingly leaving his role to Connor (who, sadly, never stuck).

All these mass Titans killings that've been going on since Didio joined the company are tiresome, annoying, and poorly done. Not an ounce of respect or interest besides a sob story to make you feel bad about a corpse before they move on to the real characters of the story. When Barry died, that issue was about him. When Supergirl died, that issue was about her. When Oliver died, that story was about him. When Superman died the ENTIRE COMIC LINE was about him.

When all these poor Titans and other miscellaneous characters died in HiC or Graduation Day or whatever it is not about them. It's a bunch of mindless shock value bloodshed (especially GD and Infinite Crisis) or some other main characters like Booster Gold, Harley, and the Trinity. You can't treat a character's death with respect if you give them a third of a comic for us to even know them and they're dead before we do.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Didio not so much. Didio only wants later generation legacies because they've been retooled to be young enough to keep Batman/Superman not so old. Wally and Dick being grown men with wards of their own and progressing their lives? Not on his watch.

Yes, and this is a real issue DC has to deal with at some point - too many legacy, alternate and sidekick characters. Putting some/most of them back on the shelf makes sense. Using them as canon fodder is a mean-spirited way to do that, of course.

Yes. Didio has been gunning to kill the third generation since literally day 1.

Well, no - Dick's still around and will be Nightwing again shortly. Yeah, he did suggest killing him off in Infinite Crisis to promote Tim and thin the legacy herd, but saw wisdom and relented. Donna Troy is around, Roy was promoted to the JLA under his tenure.

The issue is really that without purpose or space for the NTT characters, their natural inclination is to kill them. Where they should instead temporarily retire them until a logical reason for use comes along.

[BohemiaDrinker]

By the time you get to the 1990s, the death toll moved faster and faster - DC killed off Superman (briefly), Oliver Queen, almost every Green Lantern character that existed before 1990, except Guy and John, and scores of secondary characters.

And (in the bigger deaths, at least) they suffered as much backlash then as they do now, only there was no/little internet.

This "favorites" bit is only partially true: people that loose their faves will always be more vocal, but reaction to this practice is almost as old as the practice itself.

[Dred]

Yes, and this is a real issue DC has to deal with at some point - too many legacy, alternate and sidekick characters. Putting some/most of them back on the shelf makes sense. Using them as canon fodder is a mean-spirited way to do that, of course.

Well, no - Dick's still around and will be Nightwing again shortly. Yeah, he did suggest killing him off in Infinite Crisis to promote Tim and thin the legacy herd, but saw wisdom and relented. Donna Troy is around, Roy was promoted to the JLA under his tenure.

The issue is really that without purpose or space for the NTT characters, their natural inclination is to kill them. Where they should instead temporarily retire them until a logical reason for use comes along.

Yeah man Didio has never killed Donna and holy crap did you really just mention Roy? Rise of Arsenal Roy? Cry for Justice Roy? Red Hood bastardized Roy?

Roy is one of the most mistreated characters in DC history and Didio is at the forefront of that pile of rancid decisions.

Also there's no such thing as "too many legacy/sidekick" characters. The world should progress. We don't live in a world where we still rely on and defer to a bunch of people from the dawn of history. Wally is proof positive of this and he was literally the only one ever given a chance. Hell, Barry and Hal are legacy characters so that's about as hypocritical as can be.

[phantom1592]

Has anyone been killed off as much as Wally has? He 'dies' all the time. At least in Zero hour, Infinite Crisis and now HiC… he was killed off in Chain Lightning and terminal Velocity.... I know there's a couple of other times I'm not even remembering now....

It seems like every time they need a sales bump Wally gets killed off or lost forever in the Speed Force and 'Things will never be the same again!!!'