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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Default The "Comics Distribution saved and is killing comics" Video making the rounds

    This video is making the rounds. Do you guys agree with him or disagree? Nice point bringing up comics in Europe and japan doing well over America and yikes at the firefighter info! Wow! Didn't know that.


    What do you guys think of this video?





  2. #2
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    I saw this. I'm subscribed to this guy, he does great vids. Very informative and well researched. Here he gives a realistic reason why comics have been struggling for the last couple of decades (hint...it's not because of legacy heroes or SJWs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I saw this. I'm subscribed to this guy, he does great vids. Very informative and well researched. Here he gives a realistic reason why comics have been struggling for the last couple of decades (hint...it's not because of legacy heroes or SJWs).
    Its because Comic Shops are a terrible way of getting stuff on the market and digital is slowly growing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Its because Comic Shops are a terrible way of getting stuff on the market and digital is slowly growing.
    true, but the bigger reason is how they push comics. Look at how Japan handled manga, you can go to a 7/11 and pick up manga while getting a snack. They have anime adapting the storyes to build interest(and in some cases improve upon them), actual commercials for the physical product, and not to mention subscription services. They made the barrier of entry so easy it's harder to avoid manga. If you want numbers one piece puts out 3 new volumes a year and the total was just shy of 13 million physical sales last year. Comics you have to find a specialty shop (thay might not have what you want if there a lesser known publisher), there's seldom advertisement for new issues, build interest, or way for people outside of comics to know what's going on. If comics want to be better they should create a easier way to get them.

  5. #5
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    It is honestly plain to see why comic stores are failing. Why should I drive and waste gas when I can buy comics digitally or have comics mailed to my house? Both of these are cheaper than paying 3.99 each month. Is it really fun for someone to drive back and forth to a comic store to buy the latest Infinity Wars and Spider-Geddeon tie ins?
    Last edited by The Negative Zone; 09-29-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Saw it a while back, I'm subbed to him. And what he says is true, and has been known for some time. A distributor with a monopoly catering to a very niche market, it's not a good combo. But it's really hard to change that now, so they're kinda stuck. But you can see why the publishers are trying to get digital and trade sales via bookstores to gain some more traction, so they have something to fall back on if the direct market collapses.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    true, but the bigger reason is how they push comics. Look at how Japan handled manga, you can go to a 7/11 and pick up manga while getting a snack. They have anime adapting the storyes to build interest(and in some cases improve upon them), actual commercials for the physical product, and not to mention subscription services. They made the barrier of entry so easy it's harder to avoid manga. If you want numbers one piece puts out 3 new volumes a year and the total was just shy of 13 million physical sales last year. Comics you have to find a specialty shop (thay might not have what you want if there a lesser known publisher), there's seldom advertisement for new issues, build interest, or way for people outside of comics to know what's going on. If comics want to be better they should create a easier way to get them.
    Could comics feasibly do the same thing as manga? I think a good cartoon to accompany comic runs would be brilliant, but distribution of comics to places outside of comic book stores may come with problems. I agree though that it should be made easier to get comics as well as properly advertising them.

    Cartoons following the manga to anime model always seemed like a no-brainer to me, I wonder why it has never been done.
    Last edited by Crimz; 09-29-2018 at 05:01 PM.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    i mean, they've tried doing things like manga at various points,, especially during the early 00's, from trying to imitate the art, even hiring manga artists, to the form factor of the trades, to digests of stories like the manga magazines, etc. but the expectations of Western audiences and distribution restrictions get in the way of doing things the manga way a lot of the time. What works in one place won't necessarily equal success in another. It's easy to say just copy a successful model from Japan, but the audience expectations are different, and that's why the manga model can work in Japan, but would be met with resistance here. Would we really be cool with giving up colour artwork in favour of cheaply printed black and white digests? No? then the digests will be hellishly expensive. Would you be cool buying (if in colour, very expensive) digests that may contain stories we don't give a damn about in order to read the story we actually care about? And saying make shows of everything is a hell of a lot easier said than done, though I'd argue the MCU is even better. But for cartoons you first need a place to show it. the Disney streaming service could help with that for Marvel to an extent, but it's probably more in Disney's favor to focus on the MCU there, so..... And distribution in corner stores etc is also easier said than done as well. You think they don't want wider distribution? That they haven't tried to crack that market in larger numbers? They have. Remember with the New 52 there was a big push with single issues in bookstores? But that whole market is collapsing in the west, and the cost of entry is too high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Could comics feasibly do the same thing as manga? I think a good cartoon to accompany comic runs would be brilliant, but distribution of comics to places outside of comic book stores may come with problems. I agree though that it should be made easier to get comics as well as properly advertising them.

    Cartoons following the manga to anime model always seemed like a no-brainer to me, I wonder why it has never been done.
    The thing is comics can't, manga did there best to make itself as integrated with daily life as possible to ensure a extreme ease of access for anyone comics moved to a specialty shop model. You don't buy single issues of manga you by either volumes containg 10+ chapters of a series or jump with has the new the series that come out that week(these can be done via subscription and delivered to the home) manga makes anime for that reason it's so easy to get a hold of manga(literally almost any story has them) then comics that are mainly tied to speciality shops, unless comics ditch there distribution modle and some how make comics as integrated as manga there no point in using the modle because a good chunk of watcher won't be anywhere near a comic book store.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Marvel definitely should adapt comics to animation. DC already do that (direct to DVD), albeit years after the comics were out.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Marvel did do that before dc did. Then marvel stopped but dc didn't. Marvel could do stories like kravens last hunt, fantastic four trial of galactus, avengers under siege, iron man vs dr doom: king Arthur saga, and daredevil man without fear that would make great animated films.

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    The question though is, would it help comic sales the way the system is currently set up?

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    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    It's doubtful. At least, i don't think it would get more people than the movies already get. If the MCU can't drive sales in a major way, why would cartoons be able to do any better? The audience will be WAY smaller than the movies, by a whole lot, it just would, it doesn't matter if it's the most perfect cartoon ever made. I mean, the movies at this point bring in around the billion dollar mark, right? So even if we account for some of that being repeat viewings, that's many millions of people seeing it. A cartoon would have to get more viewers than Game of Thrones to even be able to come close to matching that. When was the last time a TV cartoon had GoT levels of hype? I mean, we'd have to be talking something approaching The Simpsons at their prime. It may technically be possible, but how confident are you that they can reliably do that on a regular basis by adapting old stories? This is lightning in a bottle kind of stuff. And even if they did, there are a bunch of licensed comics based on popular cartoons on the shelves, but they sell pitifully compared to the Big Two, why would these hypothetical new shows drive big sales when those other cartoons, or the MCU, don't? And yes, i know people are talking a directly faithful adaptation, and having that drive the sales of the already existing books, rather than the loose approach they have generally taken previously. But I don't think that would help much, if at all. I don't think anyone except people who are already fans will care that it's a direct adaptation, and that would just boost trade sales, anyway, not single issues. (and boosting trade sales is a good thing, but not what i think people here are getting at)

    In order for a cartoon to drive sales, the comics have to be very easy to get. Like, absurdly easy. but that's not so easy to actually pull off with how things are set up. Digital helps there, (though people have to be made more aware of it, and price-matching the paper versions will continue to hurt things there) so do trades, to an extent, if they are a book store or Amazon frequenter. The direct market and comic shops don't. Most people aren't going to watch a show and then go out of their way to look up and then go to a comic shop to try a book. A comic shop is out of the way for most people, I mean, I lived a block from a shop for a few years at one point due to pure luck, granted, but more often, i have to go out of my way to get to a shop. At this point, i have a shop that opened just a few months ago with a very limited selection (it is more a music and general pop culture store, really, but they do carry some comics) about 15 minutes away, and a nice one with a very large selection a bit over a half hour away. And I live in a pretty big city, I am looking into moving to a small town in 6 months or so, and there just won't be any comic shop at all unless i come into the city. That's a large part of why i switched to digital, i couldn't be bothered to spend an hour or more getting comics every wednesday. And most people will be in a similar situation, and for most people, that's just too much effort to try a comic book, something they will likely consume in less time than it took to obtain, let alone commit to do that once or more a month. They will be perfectly content to consume just the cartoon, movie etc. versions.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-02-2018 at 10:07 PM.

  14. #14
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    I have not had a chance to watch the video yet. But, I am familiar with the general arguments.


    Its because Comic Shops are a terrible way of getting stuff on the market and digital is slowly growing.
    I really do not get the hate for comic shops on this forum. Maybe it is because I live in a high-competition area. But, I have no problem finding stuff at comic stores. (The worst scenario is if I want something obscure, I have to plan ahead and order it a few months in advance.)


    Comics you have to find a specialty shop (thay might not have what you want if there a lesser known publisher), there's seldom advertisement for new issues, build interest, or way for people outside of comics to know what's going on. If comics want to be better they should create a easier way to get them.
    Aside from a major release from a major author, when does print matter get proper advertising in the US?


    Why should I drive and waste gas when I can buy comics digitally or have comics mailed to my house? Both of these are cheaper than paying 3.99 each month.
    How is mail cheaper than buying off the shelf?


    Cartoons following the manga to anime model always seemed like a no-brainer to me, I wonder why it has never been done.
    This is a question of how the US and Japanese markets are simply too different to compare. Cartoons in Japan are produced and marketed (and seen) differently than cartoons in the US, especially commerically viable cartoons. Would any of us actually pay money to read comics written at the level of the recent/current "Avengers" or "Spider-Man" cartoons? ("No" is the only correct answer.) And, Marvel publishes those comics, which meets any demand there might be.

    Similarly, the US market is not the Japanese market. The only place I can reliably get comics is the comic shop, partly because of a pull-file. Buying comics outside of a comic store means inconsistent distribution. (Even if the non-comic store gets comics, they may sell out before I pass through or they comics will be in bad condition.)


    Would we really be cool with giving up colour artwork in favour of cheaply printed black and white digests? No? then the digests will be hellishly expensive. Would you be cool buying (if in colour, very expensive) digests that may contain stories we don't give a damn about in order to read the story we actually care about?
    Oh, hell no....

    A digest style series might work. But, it would be tricky. And, given how broad the comic market it, it would still require a certain amount of segmentation. For example, Marvel could theoretically pair "Iron Man" with "Avengers". But, would an "Iron Man" reader necessarily buy in for "Thor"?

    Characters that lack natural association (Daredevil or Doctor Stranger) would be even more difficult to publish.


    . And most people will be in a similar situation, and for most people, that's just too much effort to try a comic book, something they will likely consume in less time than it took to obtain, let alone commit to do that once or more a month. They will be perfectly content to consume just the cartoon, movie etc. versions.
    And, why would anybody want a straight adaptation of something they already watched?
    Current pull-file:
    -Captain America
    -Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt
    -Superior Spider-Man
    -Transformers
    -XMen
    -----------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    The question though is, would it help comic sales the way the system is currently set up?
    Not really.

    The direct market in the US has become far too narrow, only caters to the most popular characters and is driven far too much by gimmicks. Thereís clearly a bigger market outside beyond the direct market where titles like Motor Crush and Ms Marvel thrive.

    The days of discovering titles Sgt Rock and Firestorm at grocery stores are long gone and a lot of people donít even know comic stores exist because theyíve become far too exclusive.

    Honestly, I really donít care if the current system should collapse and something else (far broader in reach) come into its place. The only problem with this is a ton of people will lose their jobs (which is never, ever a good thing). I canít remember the last time Iíve bought a physical title.
    Last edited by Username taken; 10-03-2018 at 01:43 PM.
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