MCU Magneto: Response to a younger, potentially non-Caucasian portrayal?

[Husk]

It's not I'm determined to "erase his Jewishness", I just like debate. Also, I've personally never looked at Erik and saw h it s heritage, but rather the cruelty he's experienced and how that shaped him.

I'm debating that I don't think his being Jewish matters to his characterization. Same as how Bruce Wayne being white doesn't matter to his, and Blade being black doesn't matter to his.

I think he can be just as compelling despite his ethnicity, or which genocide he survived. He can be Jewish, but not a survivor of the Holocaust. He could be a black survivor of Nazi Germany, having been sterilized. He could be mixed mixed Tutsi, or a Jewish volunteer, Rwanda.

I like Magneto the way he is, just fine. I'm just saying that Magneto's background/or in being changed for the MCU doesn't mean his motivations and characterization change. That's it's not a slippery slope thing.

For a start, Batman's character wouldn't be changed at all by race for a reason. His origin is generic. It quite literally could have happened to anyone, anywhere. It isn't comparable to this situation in the slightest.

The "cruelty that shaped him" was being thrown into a concentration camp because he was Jewish. Watching his people be slaughtered in the same walls that confined him, living through the scent and horror that at any moment they could come marching in and he could be next. That's a very specific experience that shaped him. He wasn't a Jewish volunteer caught up in a political diapute in Rwanda. He was part of an ethnic cleaning something that shapes him so much he vows to never let it happen again. It wasn't genocide that shaped him, it was specifically the environment of the Holocaust treatment. Your argument doesn't work because he was persecuted for his heritage. You can't have one without the other. If he'd not been Jewish, neither Magneto or his family would have been considered undesirable. They weren't a different race. They weren't disabled. They weren't gay. They were otherwise just like everyone else. Remove his Jewishness and you remove the entire reason he was exposed to the "cruelty that shaped him".

Every genocide is different and thus people in the aftermath survive in other ways. Very few genocidws have that level of internment and hatred. Many are just casualties of warring regimes. You clearly don't see the difference which is a shame, so I'm out of this debate.

[ExodusCloak]

Others seem to identify with him because of it, though, and that's what you seem to be missing. It means something to them, and you treat it with flippancy.

He has been written as both but mostly of his experiences from the Holocaust. Whether Magneto practices is very unlikely. Given what he has said to Dust in Morrison's X-Men.

[Jokerz79]

It's not I'm determined to "erase his Jewishness", I just like debate. Also, I've personally never looked at Erik and saw h it s heritage, but rather the cruelty he's experienced and how that shaped him.

I'm debating that I don't think his being Jewish matters to his characterization. Same as how Bruce Wayne being white doesn't matter to his, and Blade being black doesn't matter to his.

I think he can be just as compelling despite his ethnicity, or which genocide he survived. He can be Jewish, but not a survivor of the Holocaust. He could be a black survivor of Nazi Germany, having been sterilized. He could be mixed mixed Tutsi, or a Jewish volunteer, Rwanda.

I like Magneto the way he is, just fine. I'm just saying that Magneto's background/or in being changed for the MCU doesn't mean his motivations and characterization change. That's it's not a slippery slope thing.

Bruce Wayne being African-American would definitely alter his character but I'm not saying in a bad way but it would alter his perception of the world the first time he was pulled over in his sports car for no reason and how that might change his life views and choices when dealing with low income criminals and law enforcement.

I own the original 2 V miniseries on DVD and was watching them just yesterday and the Jewish grandfather in the 1st miniseries who is a holocaust survivor is one of the first characters to distrust the visitors even as his neighbors and grandson are enamoured with them. Why? Because he saw things about them that made him think of the Nazis and their early movements and he knew not to ignore the signs.

Magneto is the same he is partially justified in his actions because he sees politicians and citizens saying the same things they said when he was a child and he knows where that leads and what it cost his family and people and he doesn't want that to happen again. The Nazis themselves define Magneto possibly even more than being Jewish.

[Magneto]

Then he'd be Captain Somalia, representing Somalian virtues. Not American values. Steve's characterization comes from a deep belief in idealized American values. That being said, he can be any ethnicity that fought in the US military during WW2.

Erik isn't outwardly Jewish, nor are his mannerisms. He preaches about overcoming one's potential/current oppressors, by any means necessary.

In 2018, those values are not exclusive to america. He could easily be in another country with the same values.

[TooFlyToFail]

Others seem to identify with him because of it, though, and that's what you seem to be missing. It means something to them, and you treat it with flippancy.

Because I'm talking characterization. I don't identify with Blade, or Luke Cage, or T'Challa because they're AA/black, and I'm AA/black. However, with the latter 2 their ethnicity is critical to how they're written, from characterization to plot to interaction to where they live, consistently. So I wouldn't think of changing their skin. Blade isn't as pinned as they are, imo.

[Heroine Addict]

... anything on that level can form a similar character.

This says it all in a nutshell, and therein lies the disconnect.

[TooFlyToFail]

In 2018, those values are not exclusive to america. He could easily be in another country with the same values.

So you think Somalian values are the same as US values? Really?

[ExodusCloak]

The question should be why has marvel not created more Magneto like characters. Is it just safer as writers to ignore the atrocities committed by the military industrial complex?

[Heroine Addict]

... I don't identify with...

Again, lack of...

empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

[ExodusCloak]

The best they can come up with is a dinosaur creating mutant who is a poor women's answer to occupy wallstreet

[Magneto]

So you think Somalian values are the same as US values? Really?

Freedom is in their constitution, so yes. There's just too many injustices to make it happen for everyone. That's the major thing that Captain America stand for.

[CRaymond]

Is it just safer as writers to ignore the atrocities committed by the military industrial complex?

They tried it on Earth-1610.

The best they can come up with is a dinosaur creating mutant who is a poor women's answer to occupy wallstreet

Who?

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

no. He HAS to be Jewish because of the Holocaust

[TooFlyToFail]

This says it all in a nutshell, and therein lies the disconnect.

I guess disagree then. We are talking an elseworld story. This isn't the 616. If I pick up any random book featuring Magneto, it more likely his characterization will hit me before I find out he's Jewish. I personally don't see how he's written being totally informed by that. Maybe I've yet to say it, but I'm talking about creating a similar Magneto that fits his role as a well-meaning extremist that can be a villain, anti-villain or anti-hero, with a background of experiencing oppression or extreme prejudice. He'd be a different Magneto, just still Magneto.

[Heroine Addict]

I guess disagree then. ...

Yes, I've already eXpended more energy than intended, and it's left me mildly dispirited.