Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 108
  1. #61
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    30,313

    Default

    i guess i'm a russian troll too.

    i didn't like this movie. not because of all the negative reviews or theories or anything. i found it lacking on a lot of levels and i probably won't watch it again. i don't hate it. i just didn't think it was very good.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its just a weird insecurity all-around. From both sides.
    While I'm about to argue that the backlash was genuine and from multiple different viewpoints, regardless of what size we think it was, I think that the insecurity on both sides may have been helped along by possible Russian Troll bots, though probably in a way targeted more towards Rian Johnson and others.

    On the Jedi Council Forums, we spent about a week talking about the article, and a few of us realized that the implication of the article was that the general type of TLJ criticism the evidence seemed to implicate as artificial was the Alt-Right-esque information, and that the TLJ praise that was also perhaps more artificial was the SJW-on-Steroids.

    Why is this important?

    Because more of the stubborn and well thought out complaints about TLJ actually attack the film from the opposite direction: someone like me thinks TLJ was unintentionally but blandly and disappointingly sexist in handling Rey's story and racist in handling Finn, Poe, Rose, and DJ's story. At the same time, most defense of the film is not going to be politically powered by "SJWs", but rather by people who simply liked the way the story unfolded.

    Now, those are generalizations, but it does explain some of the issues people have with the debate. I mean, I started from the standpoint that Finn's story was badly written both in concept and execution, regressing his character and ignoring his development and sacrifices in TFA in exchange for cheap jokes and for raising Kylo up in a bad way. Now, while the basis of my complaint is just a matter of artistic taste, the fact that I think it is moderately racist means that I'm going to bristle whenever someone tries to accuse the critics of racism. On two fronts, I am kind of provoked to respond: the first is that I don't want to be called racist when I'm not, and the second is when I think that subtle and unitentional racism in the film is part of why my favorite character had his injuries downplayed and was sent on busy work while a priveleged white boy fascist was presented as a sympathetic co-protagonist the female heroine contorts around unnaturally.

    And let's face it, there *was* a narrative at the start of the film's release that haters were Alt-Right weirdos and defenders were SJW fanatics. Time has proven that is far from the case, in part because neither TFA nor Black Panther had the backlash of TLJ, even though both arguably offered either juicer targets (Black Panther) or had a signifanct number of fans turn on the sequel for what it did to their new favorite characters (TFA). I mean, stroll onto any Star Wars forum, and you'll find a lot of stubborn defenders and Bashers who do not conform to the earlier narrative; the debate tends to focus much more on arguments about characterization, internal film logic, and conceptual strength for the themes and arcs.

    BUT! While the intial marketing narrative about the Criticsm is probably wrong... I'm more than willing to bet that troll bots might have exacerbated and enhanced the cyber bullying targeting Rian Johsnon, Kelly Marie Tran, etc.
    Franchise Wars Podcast and YouTube Host.
    TITANS pilot Recap, Reaction, and Review video! https://youtu.be/l1tKBTUtiyM
    The Force Awakens vs The Last Jedi https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=408109126
    Teen Titans (03) vs Teen Titans Go! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...=2&i=400482734

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    4,728

    Default

    Anyone else depressed a story about Star Wars vs "Russian Bots" isn't Luke Skywalker vs Crimson Dynamo?

  4. #64
    Fantastic Member Red Robe Jaldari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Anyone else depressed a story about Star Wars vs "Russian Bots" isn't Luke Skywalker vs Crimson Dynamo?
    I don't like mixing franchises just for the sake of it.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member Bunai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Jupiter, PA
    Posts
    884

    Default

    I'm surprised they didn't blame China. Isn't it there that these movies have bombed repeatedly?

    They were also vocal about disliking the casts.
    aka(s). o-bunⓐi-o // ⓓcembⓘrth

    Sorry for any misspellings or grammar mistakes

    Last edited by Crazed T'Challa x Emma x Namor shipper; Yesterday at 00:00 UM.

  6. #66
    Mighty Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    The Last Jedi was a complete mess. From the pointless casino planet, the Dr Seuss Goat being milked, and Rose, a character more annoying than Jar Jar Binks.

    At this point I don't care about the final part of the new trilogy. These new characters do not appeal to me at all.

    Russian Trolls? No, this was a flat out bad movie

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    9,483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla2099 View Post
    The Last Jedi was a complete mess. From the pointless casino planet, the Dr Seuss Goat being milked, and Rose, a character more annoying than Jar Jar Binks.

    At this point I don't care about the final part of the new trilogy. These new characters do not appeal to me at all.

    Russian Trolls? No, this was a flat out bad movie
    Most of the people in the thread who are saying that Russian trolls have something to do with it aren't claiming that it is an either/or thing, but and. It's a film that I think has a lot of problems, that caused a lot of angry conversations, and then the Russian troll farms threw gasoline onto the flame war to make it worse. And from what I have seen of how they operate, they probably took both sides.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Or maybe, it's because lot of people didn't like the movie?...
    Could just as easily be that. What is this the 1950s with a Red under every bed? How ridiculous can one get?
    "You'll never learn to fly now 'til you're standing at the cliff."

  9. #69
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,560

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla2099 View Post
    The Last Jedi was a complete mess. From the pointless casino planet, the Dr Seuss Goat being milked, and Rose, a character more annoying than Jar Jar Binks.

    At this point I don't care about the final part of the new trilogy. These new characters do not appeal to me at all.

    Russian Trolls? No, this was a flat out bad movie
    Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's a bad film.
    I decided not to see Thor Ragnarok based on trailers but eventually caught it on DVD. I hated it, but not because it was a bad film, but because it was completely not to my taste. One man's meat is another man's poison.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,560

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    More desperate spin. Nothing to see here.

    And I don't think there's anything wrong with being in a "minority" even if that were true, especially where this film is concerned.

    The SW prequels profited at the box office and had it's fans too. Doesn't mean anything, history has born them out to be divisive failures, same will happen with Last Jedi.
    I have a feeling it might be the opposite.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    4,728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's a bad film.
    I decided not to see Thor Ragnarok based on trailers but eventually caught it on DVD. I hated it, but not because it was a bad film, but because it was completely not to my taste. One man's meat is another man's poison.
    It's a bad film because much like the Prequels it doesn't just ask you to suspend disbelief but also logic for the plot to work.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,560

    Default

    These are fantasy films.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    9,483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    These are fantasy films.
    Even fantasy films require some form of logic for suspension of disbelief.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    4,728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    These are fantasy films.
    I like Howard the Duck and I also like Cannon Movies they're not good movies but I find them entertaining there is nothing wrong with saying something is bad but entertaining look at Venom.

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    5,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    I have a feeling it might be the opposite.
    Yeah, if anything, the prequels are getting a revaluation of sorts, even if it's nothing more then just as "they weren't quite as bad as the internet would have you believe."

    In the case of TLJ, I would be interested to see if there are any trends in the camps that like and dislike it, e.g. how do newer fans take it overall as opposed to older fans. If the dislike is primarily centered around people who grew up with the older movies, we may see TLJ have a less mixed reception in the future, just like how now fandom has been less hard on the prequels as those who grew up with them are becoming a larger voice in the "community."
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •