Avengers #9 Spoilers and Review

[kilderkin]

And anyone might read the exact same amount of material involving a character and still come away with a different opinion than another fan or writer regarding what that character would or wouldn't do and what kind of stories that character can play a valid part in. You can read everything about a character and still not see eye to eye about that character with another person who's done the same. So for anyone to hold up their stats as a reader is ultimately meaningless. Reading a lot about a character might give someone a leg up in a trivia contest and that's it. It doesn't make them the final arbiter on what is right or wrong pertaining to that character simply by dint of the fact that they've read a lot.

And there's a vast difference between the matters that are decided in court cases and arguing how, say, Spider-Man should be written.

There is no "burden of proof" that a comic book writer has to present to readers in order to justify their decisions.

If they were hired by the publishers and editors in charge of a property and whatever storyline they discussed went through the development process and were approved, that's it.

Readers can like that final product or not but no one's "expert" opinion means anything except in rating the value of their own individual reading experience.

Indeed opinion may vary within the same experience, that's fine, it's still a relative to the validity

all the other stuff you said I'm fine with, I wasn't debating that, only that opinions can by degree be more or less valid, never correct

Writers don't need to justify their decisions, I agree, likewise fans don't need to justify their view of the read

I've been off topic enough, apologies to the thread, I'll move back on

...

how do we think this showing of namor will link into the upcoming defenders books, I hope the Defenders of the Deep show up there

[JKtheMac]

I don't really disagree with any of this

I was hoping you wouldn't. I have often considered much of what we disagree on a question of how we express the issues rather than the issues themselves.

[JKtheMac]

Ha...I just finally read the issue last night. So I'm late to the party.

It does seem weird to have the car underwater, etc. His character almost seems to be the conduit for the audience...the "oh look how cool it is to hang out with these guys" character. but overall, I have actually liked Robbie in this book. I don't think I'd want to read a solo book...but in smaller doses, as part of a team, he works for me.

Yes you are almost certainly correct he is being used as a way in for the reader. This feels a bit weird when in his own book his themes are mostly about juggling responsibilities but I suppose even there he is also being introduced to the Marvel universe. One of the reasons I have enjoyed quite a few of the newer characters from Marvel recently is the opportunity to have this gazetteer of the MU approach, introducing a newer audience to the wider world. Sometimes approaching the familiar through the eyes of a newer character brings new wonder and enjoyment.

Plus, as I said before, with the choice of a Ghost Rider story in the BC timeline there is a suggestion that Aaron has a plan for the archetype along the way. So much of this run so far has been subtle positioning of archetypes in new and interesting ways. Instead of just saying 'the Avengers are always made up of these key characters' he is potentially suggesting something more interesting but so far unrevealed. We can see hints in the way the three eras from the books so far don't always match and have some strange mixtures of ideas.

[JKtheMac]

Readers can like that final product or not but no one's "expert" opinion means anything except in rating the value of their own individual reading experience.

Indeed I see this almost in the reverse. The more experience with the wider canon the more a reader is able to see how varied the different takes have been over the years. Especially if one reads a lot in short spaces of time instead of just relying on memory and nostalgia. I noticed this a lot more coming back into comics and having resources like Marvel Unlimited at my disposal. Suddenly the glorious nature of the discontinuity was apparent and it was frankly liberating. I could discard my old notions of canon in favour of just appreciating what I was reading at any moment.

Catching up with Thor comics that I had missed was fascinating because during that period there had been multiple attempts to reimagine the character in Trade Paperbacks and Minis. Some were more successful than others but most were nowhere near as good as the books I was catching up on towards the end of the gap, like the JMS run or Gillen's Journey into Mystery. This had me excited for the direction Thor was being taken in. So far Marvel haven't let this reader down since.

[Prof. Warren]

Indeed I see this almost in the reverse. The more experience with the wider canon the more a reader is able to see how varied the different takes have been over the years. Especially if one reads a lot in short spaces of time instead of just relying on memory and nostalgia. I noticed this a lot more coming back into comics and having resources like Marvel Unlimited at my disposal. Suddenly the glorious nature of the discontinuity was apparent and it was frankly liberating. I could discard my old notions of canon in favour of just appreciating what I was reading at any moment.

I agree. I'm actually always puzzled by readers who say they're well versed in a character but yet fail to notice or appreciate the ways in which long running characters are always shifting and evolving - sometimes in dramatic ways, sometimes more subtly.

[kilderkin]

Indeed I see this almost in the reverse. The more experience with the wider canon the more a reader is able to see how varied the different takes have been over the years. Especially if one reads a lot in short spaces of time instead of just relying on memory and nostalgia. I noticed this a lot more coming back into comics and having resources like Marvel Unlimited at my disposal. Suddenly the glorious nature of the discontinuity was apparent and it was frankly liberating. I could discard my old notions of canon in favour of just appreciating what I was reading at any moment.

Catching up with Thor comics that I had missed was fascinating because during that period there had been multiple attempts to reimagine the character in Trade Paperbacks and Minis. Some were more successful than others but most were nowhere near as good as the books I was catching up on towards the end of the gap, like the JMS run or Gillen's Journey into Mystery. This had me excited for the direction Thor was being taken in. So far Marvel haven't let this reader down since.

I do think getting access to the fuller history is great whatever experience one may have already have

certainly I've enjoyed looking back at things, for both good and bad

My appreciation of Peter David's hulk has changed a little for the worse yet my appreciation of the 90s xmen has greatly increased as I am able to jump around more

[kilderkin]

I was hoping you wouldn't. I have often considered much of what we disagree on a question of how we express the issues rather than the issues themselves.

I can admit that sometimes I don't make my points clearly

more than anything I woukd hope I don't sound dismissive of anyone, I appreciate my view is just that and I'm no smarter than anyone else

and I absolutely appreciate any responses to my comments coz even when I disagree I appreciate the time taken and different views to give me things to consider

[kilderkin]

I agree. I'm actually always puzzled by readers who say they're well versed in a character but yet fail to notice or appreciate the ways in which long running characters are always shifting and evolving - sometimes in dramatic ways, sometimes more subtly.

I think the access to digital libraries a huge bonus on appreciating characters in a fresh eyes perspective

certainly my x men mythos appreciation has greatly increased

[fin5]

Im confused did i miss sometine Namor is at war again.Did i miss sometine?

[cc008]

From what I understand, Jason Aaron lives in his own world. Maybe we both missed something.

[Mike_Murdock]

Didn't some humans attack Atlanteans at the end of issue 8? I thought that was the motivation.

That being said, I feel there's more. Since it'll be hard to come back from the cruelty he's shown so far.

[fin5]

yea your right the last pages of 8 shows it i forgot

[Vishop]

Im confused did i miss sometine Namor is at war again.Did i miss sometine?

Yeah i think i find something really offffff with Namor !!!

[mikeb]

Yeah i think i find something really offffff with Namor !!!

I don't know...The way Namor PUNKED Carol was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

[Vishop]

I don't know...The way Namor PUNKED Carol was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

I can't deny that i like Namor , but i feel really bad that now and then the Avengers are being jobbed .

P.S: Don't worry i am with u on that case