Avengers #9 Spoilers and Review

[Bunai]

". . . After all that Wakanda has done to my people!!!"

[kilderkin]

What specific continuity is Aaron ignoring in this book?

From my perspective he put in a lot of continuity that he didn't need to. There's like ten or so people that give a crap about Stingray and the character has been perfect fodder for someone for a villain to kill to show how seriously we should take them so what he does here is unsurprising, what is surprising is that in (what we can assume is) his last appearance we get a references to the characters relationships with Tiger Shark and Namor. He didn't need to do that, no one bar ten aforementioned fans of the character would care but he referenced obscure continuity.

The issue also referenced Black Panther's attack on Atlantis during Hickman's New Avengers which I think most writers would forget and most or all of the Defenders of the Deep are all really obscure pre-existing characters. He didn't need to do that either, he could have Namor and Tiger Shark surrounded by entirely new cool characters but he obviously plunged into the depths of Marvel's continuity to find suitable ocean based characters for Sub Mariner's team.

So I don't buy that a writer who is going out of his way to reference continuity doesn't care about it.

What I think you mean is you disagree with his characterizations of characters and feel they would never act that way but I can't help but think of all the melt downs of his portrayal of She-Hulk and how it ignored the ending of Tamaki's run when even early it was hinted that Jennifer Walters had returned to her more iconic Hulk form but there was something about the Final Host which was bringing out her transformations into the savage She-Hulk then we had it all but confirmed one issue ago. I would wager you think the same about Namor, right? That his characterization here contradicts all his previous depictions (even though he's killed land dwellers before) but have you ever wondered if the same deal isn't happening with Namor, that the Final Host attack or some other force isn't influencing him? Maybe wait till we get deeper in to the story before reaching those conclusions. Even if it's not what a lot of fans think I'd argue this issue presents a good case for why this particular destruction of Atlantis is the one that makes Namor snap and turn against his allies.

Thor as Hercules? C'mon a long running character like Thor has been portrayed in a number of ways to the iconic noble space-god-super hero who speaks in thees and thous to a modern speaking warrior to the classic speaking but played for humour, Johhny Bravo is he were a space-viking-super hero. Aaron't current take isn't new and is no less valid that any other take. Aaron understands this hence when he began his Thor run he started off with something akin to the classic Thor and went overtime to where he is now.

You don't have to like any the above but the idea that it is flouting continuity is wrong.

I can't think of a time in his own book or the avengers where Thor has consistently been portrayed like this as an adult, as a younger tale of him yes, but since he originally formed the avengers I don't recall it

Not saying it's never happened, but in his own book or avengers, consistently, I don't recall But I guess it's possible

But even so, even allowing for this is how he wants to write him, I reserve the right to dislike it

[Ravin' Ray]

That being said one thing that makes me think some other source is affecting Namor is his increased strength which was noted in the story but frankly he's always been stronger in water.

Admittedly this is left of field but since Echidna is there, and she has some mystical powers, maybe her presence is augmenting Namor?

To be honest, I laughed when Carol got "owned" by Namor!

Given Carol's treat by men in the past, I don't blame her approach toward Namor.

And I think an underwater superteam is long overdue. With other marine characters out there you'd think they'd have banded together decades ago.

[Ezyo1000]

". . . After all that Wakanda has done to my people!!!"

I kinda wish JA had Tchalla respond with "Do not forget initiated the bloodshed Namor, you brought the wrath of Wakanda on to yourself when you flooded my Kingdom"
As its long overdue that someone addresses this so that they can move forward.

[Bunai]

I kinda wish JA had Tchalla respond with "Do not forget initiated the bloodshed Namor, you brought the wrath of Wakanda on to yourself when you flooded my Kingdom"
As its long overdue that someone addresses this so that they can move forward.

For real. The opportunities for this to be brought up by both and for both to actually acknowledge it is always dashed away for whatever reasons.

This would work for people who don't know the history between the two.

[InformationGeek]

Jason Aaron must be one of the worst writers around, I have never seen anyone ignore continuity as much as he does, just to fit his already poor narrative, he twists and ignores elements, power levels, continuity, lore and anything else so he can tell his story, which doesn't even end up being noteworthy.
The worst thing is that Marvel lets him, Jason Aaron doesn't seem to realize that he's not writing new characters that are his own, these are pre-established characters with stories, personalities and continuity that you have to respect, and he just ignores all of that.

He's not. I've read Scalped and Southern Bastards and he's pretty damn good.

But honestly, I find his superhero stuff incredibly lacking. I liked the first arc of his Thor run with the God killer stuff and some of the earlier arcs in Wolverine and the X-Men, but everything else... it's just kind of boring. Hulk bored me to tears, Punisher was generic (though, pretty much all Punisher comics are), most of his Thor stuff went in and left the moment I was done reading, Original Sin I keep having to remind myself ever existed, and Dr. Strange... was just kind of there. I don't know what about it, but his superhero comics are just boring and none of his characters are written in a way I find compelling.

His Indie stuff is great, but his Marvel stuff is lacking. I think his strength lies in writing smaller, down-to-earth characters and stories that are human and relatable.

[JKtheMac]

I feel like the bolded has been way more consistent to the character then the "classic speaking but played for humour, Johhny Bravo is he were a space-viking-super hero" take which is pretty much just Aaron, and where all the Hercules comparisons come from. Even the modern warrior felt like a more natural evolution of the old Thor then Aaron's current portrayal of him.

I know Aaron can write a good classic Thor because that's how he wrote Jane, which makes it all the more jarring or noticeable that he writes Thor so differently now.

I guess I find the Aaron's take less valid because it seems to run counter to the Thor I've read and seen numerous times (aside from later MCU Thor), and frankly doesn't seem to depict the God of Thunder in the best light.

Why exactly is it important that heroes are always shown in the best light? Cut me in half and you will find ‘Thor Fan’ written through me like Brighton Rock. Do I fret about Thor being cast as a humorous character occasionally, or being depowered for a while? Do I worry about Thor not having Mjölnir for a couple of years? Do I mind if he is depicted as occasionally drinking or kissing She-Hulk and then feeling self concious about it? Why on earth should I?

Aaron has proven over and over that he understands Thor and Thor comics. He has brought the line huge success and asked fascinating questions about the premise of the character. Throughout he has referenced Kirby, Simonson, Thomas, and no doubt many other classic Thor stories. He is responsible for two of my favourite Thor runs back to back. I couldn’t be more happy with Aaron as the custodian of one of my favourite Marvel characters.

Right beside Thor Fan you will find written Cyclops Fan, and he’s been dead for years. I don’t particularly mind about that either, but I look forward to his inevitable return.

[kilderkin]

He's not. I've read Scalped and Southern Bastards and he's pretty damn good.

But honestly, I find his superhero stuff incredibly lacking. I liked the first arc of his Thor run with the God killer stuff and some of the earlier arcs in Wolverine and the X-Men, but everything else... it's just kind of boring. Hulk bored me to tears, Punisher was generic (though, pretty much all Punisher comics are), most of his Thor stuff went in and left the moment I was done reading, Original Sin I keep having to remind myself ever existed, and Dr. Strange... was just kind of there. I don't know what about it, but his superhero comics are just boring and none of his characters are written in a way I find compelling.

His Indie stuff is great, but his Marvel stuff is lacking. I think his strength lies in writing smaller, down-to-earth characters and stories that are human and relatable.

I find his thor a very human ish god of thunder

Not for the better I would add imo

Yet his jane was excellent for that exact reason

Imo it is the very lack of godliness for want of a better word I find lacking in his thor work

But I'm that surprised by that based on some of the things he said in the odd interview

I feel

[kilderkin]

Why exactly is it important that heroes are always shown in the best light? Cut me in half and you will find ‘Thor Fan’ written through me like Brighton Rock. Do I fret about Thor being cast as a humorous character occasionally, or being depowered for a while? Do I worry about Thor not having Mjölnir for a couple of years? Do I mind if he is depicted as occasionally drinking or kissing She-Hulk and then feeling self concious about it? Why on earth should I?

Aaron has proven over and over that he understands Thor and Thor comics. He has brought the line huge success and asked fascinating questions about the premise of the character. Throughout he has referenced Kirby, Simonson, Thomas, and no doubt many other classic Thor stories. He is responsible for two of my favourite Thor runs back to back. I couldn’t be more happy with Aaron as the custodian of one of my favourite Marvel characters.

Right beside Thor Fan you will find written Cyclops Fan, and he’s been dead for years. I don’t particularly mind about that either, but I look forward to his inevitable return.

clearly some people have different appreciations than others

that's ok

[GodThor]

nah, fam.

IT'S THE SUN!!

[Frontier]

Why exactly is it important that heroes are always shown in the best light? Cut me in half and you will find ‘Thor Fan’ written through me like Brighton Rock. Do I fret about Thor being cast as a humorous character occasionally, or being depowered for a while? Do I worry about Thor not having Mjölnir for a couple of years? Do I mind if he is depicted as occasionally drinking or kissing She-Hulk and then feeling self concious about it? Why on earth should I?

Personally as a Superhero fan I prefer my characters to be written consistently and heroically. Not that I'm against them struggling or having down periods but I don't think it should be handled in the way Aaron has been handling it with Thor.

But that's my personal opinion. I don't think you're any less a Thor fan for having a different one.

Aaron has proven over and over that he understands Thor and Thor comics. He has brought the line huge success and asked fascinating questions about the premise of the character. Throughout he has referenced Kirby, Simonson, Thomas, and no doubt many other classic Thor stories. He is responsible for two of my favourite Thor runs back to back. I couldn’t be more happy with Aaron as the custodian of one of my favourite Marvel characters.

I don't deny Aaron seems to know a lot about Thor's history and continuity, but I just personally don't really care for his handling of the mythos and his characterization for certain characters.

But that's just me.

[kilderkin]

Personally as a Superhero fan I prefer my characters to be written consistently and heroically. Not that I'm against them struggling or having down periods but I don't think it should be handled in the way Aaron has been handling it with Thor.

But that's my personal opinion. I don't think you're any less a Thor fan for having a different one.

I don't deny Aaron seems to know a lot about Thor's history and continuity, but I just personally don't really care for his handling of the mythos and his characterization for certain characters.

But that's just me.

Agreed

I can't deny the interest and success of the run

and I thought he handle janes story very well

But his general handling of the asgard mythos, thor and odin in particular I very much dislike

But clearly sales show a good number of people do like it, that's cool too

[King_Thor13]

Lonewolf posted the characters on the other page. Namor, Andromeda, Tiger Shark, Orka, Echidna and possibly Salamar the Something, with one completely unidentified.

I doubt that's all the options. A few pages back was a promo teasing Ursa Major.

Thanks. Must have missed that post. I only recognized Tiger Shark from the bunch. I mentioned this already, but I'm surprised Namora, Namorita, Marrina and Crosta were all absent. I guess they're going for a darker take, so they didn't make the cut, but it would've been a nice use of the Atlantean adjacent characters that don't often see the light of day. Some cool designs with this bunch though & I hope they stick around in the long-run.

I don't know, I think a misdirection like that with none of them being actual candidates is kinda pointless. I hope it's Black Widow. Whoever it is, they'll likely only stick around for one arc anyway, while the current narrative is addressed, then whatever story comes next will bring someone else on board. I look forward to seeing who's on the Avengers when the War of the Realms comes to Midgard.

I donÂ’t think theyÂ’d put Ares and Thor on the same team- would they?🤔

I think they're different enough that having Ares on the team for a few issues wouldn't cause a redundancy. If he's the recruit though, I've no clue why he'd be pulled in at this time.

Is the next issue over-sized? Seems way too crowded. More of the team, Wolverine Tease, Wasp in Action, New Member. That's a lot.

Isn't this Issue #700? It's an over-sized anniversary issue I think, hence why there's a bit more content. I'm really excited. The first arc was lackluster, and I'm still not a fan of the way Aaron writes Thor & She-Hulk, but the overall story he's weaving has my interest.

". . . After all that Wakanda has done to my people!!!"

It's ridiculous right? Namor is such a drama queen. Going to war with the entire surface world for the grievances of a few is freaking ridiculous. And let's not forget when his actions when he was one of the Phoenix Five against the people of Wakanda.

I kinda wish JA had T'Challa respond with "Do not forget initiated the bloodshed Namor, you brought the wrath of Wakanda on to yourself when you flooded my Kingdom"
As its long overdue that someone addresses this so that they can move forward.

Amen.

[JKtheMac]

Personally as a Superhero fan I prefer my characters to be written consistently and heroically. Not that I'm against them struggling or having down periods but I don't think it should be handled in the way Aaron has been handling it with Thor.

But that's my personal opinion. I don't think you're any less a Thor fan for having a different one.

I don't deny Aaron seems to know a lot about Thor's history and continuity, but I just personally don't really care for his handling of the mythos and his characterization for certain characters.

But that's just me.

It’s all very well having a personal perspective but to accuse a writer of willfully ignoring characterisation or writing him unherocially requires more than a personal sense of dissatisfaction. Especially when others don’t see it.

Suffice to say there are different ways to interpret just about anything he has been depicted doing in most of Aaron’s comics.

I am fine with different perspectives and interpretations, but I will never understand the many fans whom when given two or more alternative interpretations of a comic, choose the one that makes their hero seem worse. This seems to be the default mode for a lot of people across fandom in general. That to me is entirely self-defeating as an outlook. It starts with expecting to be dissatisfied and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Anthony W]

nah, fam.

IT'S THE SUN!!

I feels like you are talking about an Aaronism I'm not aware of. Can you explain it?