Avengers #9 Spoilers and Review

[GodThor]

I hope he became the real Thor again during War of Realms , which i am expecting less right now from Aaron . Btw why did Aaron wanted Jane to become Thor ?

I don't really think that Asgard was shaked by her being Thor , if he really wanted to do that for certain .

because he hates Thor, that's why.

but eh, we can discuss it in Thor thread so that we don't stray away from this one.

[Digifiend]

X-Red #10 just broke ur timeline LOL

No it didn't, because I'm specifically talking about issue 8 onwards, as mentioned in this earlier post:

Order of events is X-Men Red > Extermination > Namor in Avengers. They still have Searebro in Extermination but won't in Uncanny X-Men, so I think maybe it gets destroyed in Extermination #5. Namor will leave the team and then the events of Avengers #8-10 happen.

[Orbus]

because he hates Thor, that's why.

but eh, we can discuss it in Thor thread so that we don't stray away from this one.

No one thought that when he was writing Thor: God of Thunder. Thor fans hyped that as one of the best things Marvel was doing at the time.

While it's not impossible that Marvel assigns a writer to a character they hate and that for whatever reason they would accept but what is more likely; Aaron hates Thor or that he thought that doing a story about a very frail mortal becoming an embodiment of Thor and exploring what an unworthy Odinson would be like would be interesting?

[kilderkin]

No one thought that when he was writing Thor: God of Thunder. Thor fans hyped that as one of the best things Marvel was doing at the time.

While it's not impossible that Marvel assigns a writer to a character they hate and that for whatever reason they would accept but what is more likely; Aaron hates Thor or that he thought that doing a story about a very frail mortal becoming an embodiment of Thor and exploring what an unworthy Odinson would be like would be interesting?

Maybe,

but that story was a good while ago and imo it's been a deep downward spiral since to an epic jaunt of underwhelming thor characterisation

jane was good, though I felt it dragged toward the end and was littered with squashes and debasement of thor and odin to make others look better, rather than just making the others cool, cheap trick there for me

and sure he thought it would be interesting to systematically break thor and his father down making them both look less capable and incompetent, thor incompetent and incapable, Odin foolish and despotic

because imo the work is overtly affected by his own world view (I've said before I could be wrong there, I just don't think so)

least that's how it looks to me

but of course opinions vary

[Mike_Murdock]

He didn't break it down into arcs.

Aaron Avengers #1 - 6 and X-Men Red #1 - 11 most likely takes place after No Surrender and Phoenix Rez. That explains why Gambit is still on Earth. The only other time the X-Men and Avengers cross over in 616 is the Return of Wolverine minis which still fit since Laura is still Wolverine and Rogue is still on Earth

You can easily say Avengers #1-6 take place before Jean calls them in #10 then Red ends at #11. You go to Extermination where it's post-Return of Wolverine so Laura is X-23 again and Jean is still in Atlantis (Red could still say Searebro is moved to a non-Atlantis location). Then you go to Avengers #8 where evil, sexy Namor shows up. Uncanny X-Men takes place after Extermination when the O5 leaves. There aren't any X-Men pulling double duty in UXM to determine when Avengers #8 - bleh and UXM #1-10 takes place though.

I used to think Marvel continuity used to be tighter. Then I started reading SuperMegaMonkey's website. I had a hell of a time trying to fit Steve Gerber's Avengers Spotlight run, Avengers, and Avengers West Coast all together. The best proposal was to set Avengers Spotlight 38 about ten issues prior to the issues that came first, which I refused to do and would be impossible if people reading at the time assumed everything was happening in publication order.

[Prof. Warren]

No one thought that when he was writing Thor: God of Thunder. Thor fans hyped that as one of the best things Marvel was doing at the time.

While it's not impossible that Marvel assigns a writer to a character they hate and that for whatever reason they would accept but what is more likely; Aaron hates Thor or that he thought that doing a story about a very frail mortal becoming an embodiment of Thor and exploring what an unworthy Odinson would be like would be interesting?

Aaron doesn't hate Thor, obviously. He has a take on the character that rubs some fans the wrong way. But by the same token, others clearly love his Thor.

I think almost every writer who's on a character any length of time is accused of not liking or not getting the character that they're writing by fans who believe they know the character better.

[kilderkin]

Aaron doesn't hate Thor, obviously. He has a take on the character that rubs some fans the wrong way. But by the same token, others clearly love his Thor.

I think almost every writer who's on a character any length of time is accused of not liking or not getting the character that they're writing by fans who believe they know the character better.

I think lots of readers might know a characters history better, it's quite possible

but the writer will know their version better of course

just because someone writes a book doesn't make them a particular expert, you might hope it did, but I'm not convinced anymore

but even if a readers does know a character superbly, and even objectivity, that's not to say they can dictate correctness

the writer writes their version correctly by definition, people might like that or not

[Reviresco]

that part with She-Hulk was off guard tbh and Red Hulk was out of air.

I'm not sure those are mitigating circumstances. I mean, was an on guard She-Hulk going to be able to take a blow from Namor with a Luke Cage bludgeon? It's not like she's faster than Namor.

And Red Hulk running out of air definitely supports the claim that Namor, in his water element (no air, crushing pressure, freezing cold, lightless, moving through tons of liquid, the bends, etc.) where water invigorates him and even heals him, should be almost unbeatable. Sadly, most writers just ignore how inhospitable the ocean depths are -- much worse than out space.

that's actually the main issue.

he can beat them if he wants but he literally made a joke out of them (plus, Thor fought him equally a few months ago).

Which was off panel, and to be honest, again did not take into account that Namor has the advantage in the water. If Aaron wants to have characters beat Namor, he needs to have it happen out of the water.

if it was some hard battle then cool but this was a ra***.

now, it's possible he is boosted but if he isn't then it's BS IMO and anger isn't doing much for me.

besides, current Avengers are treated as a hype tools, especially Thor (dude was afraid he would die from a fall and couldn't stop a train).

first Hulk, then Sentry and then Namor in one month.

call me BS, but seeing Thor treated like this for years left a bad mark.

heck, if TOAA beat Thor I would be pissed at this point.

It isn't anger, despite what Namor said, but environment, that would have given him the advantage in this battle. But I agree, what we saw on panel, the ease of the fight, especially with Thor, seems a little much. Iron Man ... well, Namor has peeled him like a grape a few times, so that's not unusual.

As a Namor fan, I understand how you feel regarding Thor -- but add a decade plus years for my pain.

Hulk's gotten a lot stronger since the days Namor used to beat him underwater (and gained a healing factor, and doesn't need to breathe, heck some of those early fights were before the madder=stronger was established.)

Yes, because 'the strongest there is' needs MORE upgrades. ;p

Honestly, I don't get the "doesn't need to breathe," for any living creature, not just the Hulk. Machines, okay. But for living tissue? What the heck is your brain and your muscles living on, if you aren't getting oxygen?

That said Namor is a powerhouse, one of the few that can truly go toe to toe with guys like the Hulk. Back before Wolverine got big, Hulk vs. Namor was the ultimate Savage vs Savage brawl.

While I think they're leaning heavy on him being a villain, which I disagree with, powerwise, this is where Namor should be.

There is the Thor caveat. I think Namor in the water should be the favorite over Thor solo, but it should still be a fight. Aaron has been jobbing Thor like crazy for years now though, so against Aaron Thor...

Look, at this point I don't think we can say Thor is being jobbed out to anybody but Aaron-Jane-Thor.

I agree with those points. Namor is definitely a powerhouse and his brawls with Hulk (and other brawlers) were epic. And making a Namor a "villain," WITHOUT giving him the stories to restore him to his heroic self is just wrong, IMO.

Yes. The ease of the fight is one of the things that makes me believe there's something going on with Namor. I haven't seen any clues pointing to it, but with Roxxon mentioned, it makes me think of the Serpent Crown. But since Aaron did include an Atlantean in pre-historic Avengers / super-powers on the cave painting -- though I don't think he actually used one in his story -- perhaps it's that. Or hey, maybe it's Dagon.

[Reviresco]

LOL i was actually going to say Captain Marvel , i apologize for any inconvenience .

If u don't mind can u show me any recent durability fts for Namor , underwater .

That would be good for all of us (at least for me since i asked that particular question b4 in this thread) . Thanks for show me those scans btw .

Okay, Captain Marvel makes more sense. TBH, I wasn't sure exactly what Captain Marvel was doing in those panels -- or exactly what her powers are now. She's not as physically strong as Namor.

What do you mean by durability? Namor is bullet proof, has taken blows from all the heavy hitters in the MU, has shrugged off bombs and artillery, is unaffected by radioactivity, can't be electrocuted, doesn't feel the cold. What are you specifically asking is he durability against?

[GodThor]

Which was off panel, and to be honest, again did not take into account that Namor has the advantage in the water. If Aaron wants to have characters beat Namor, he needs to have it happen out of the water.

it was both inside the water and on the ground so it was 50/50. Thor did face a lot more powerful foes in their domain.

Namor is definitely a power house that's for sure.

As a Namor fan, I understand how you feel regarding Thor -- but add a decade plus years for my pain.

yeah, there are a lot of characters that were shitted on (Thing for example).

never thought that the famous Thor will get this bad treatment though.

[Vishop]

Okay, Captain Marvel makes more sense. TBH, I wasn't sure exactly what Captain Marvel was doing in those panels -- or exactly what her powers are now. She's not as physically strong as Namor.

What do you mean by durability? Namor is bullet proof, has taken blows from all the heavy hitters in the MU, has shrugged off bombs and artillery, is unaffected by radioactivity, can't be electrocuted, doesn't feel the cold. What are you specifically asking is he durability against?

I mean his resistance against some high tier fts but i guess i get ur point from Namor being bullet proof .Therefore i don't think u have to say anymore .

[Reviresco]

it was both inside the water and on the ground so it was 50/50. Thor did face a lot more powerful foes in their domain.

Namor is definitely a power house that's for sure.

Of course, I agree with that.

yeah, there are a lot of characters that were shitted on (Thing for example).

never thought that the famous Thor will get this bad treatment though.

I agree. When you look at the power creep other characters have gotten, and really haven't needed, it is sad that a great character like the Thing gets the short end of the stick. OTOH, Ben Grimm is a great character, and with the FF back, he'll always have good to great stories.

I cut back on Marvel's comics for the last few years, so I haven't read much of Thor after God Butcher. I did think the whole Unworthy bit in ... I've forgotten the event already ... with the death of the Watcher and Nick Fury? Anyways, I thought that was ridiculous.

[Ptrvc]

Of course, I agree with that.







I agree. When you look at the power creep other characters have gotten, and really haven't needed, it is sad that a great character like the Thing gets the short end of the stick. OTOH, Ben Grimm is a great character, and with the FF back, he'll always have good to great stories.

I cut back on Marvel's comics for the last few years, so I haven't read much of Thor after God Butcher. I did think the whole Unworthy bit in ... I've forgotten the event already ... with the death of the Watcher and Nick Fury? Anyways, I thought that was ridiculous.

Ben's problem is that he's stuck on a team. Strong guys on teams tend to get the short end of the stick. Reduced to punching hard and lifting things. And getting jobbed to show how tough the villan is of course.

No reason to thunderclap the Sandman away when Sue can just trap him. No reason to fly around when Reed made a fantasticar. No reason to call down lightning on a horde of foes when Johnny can Nova.

[maklelin highbain]

[QUOTE=kilderkin;3946259]I really dislike the look of his hair

Just doesn't look right for namor imo

i really liked the hair cos i properly looks like it is free floating in the water which is a nice touch

[maklelin highbain]

I thoroughly enjoyed this issue, it felt a bit more old school than some of the more recent runs, same reason I liked No Surrender.
The take down of Stingray really gave the issue a sense of dread as it seems once again Namor will stop at nothing to achieve his misguided goals. Also his complete respect for Cap was a great touch.