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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    It was Justice Leagues # 1 from 2001. It was the one with the Advance Man.
    I THINK that was the League's moon base teleorters bringing the aliens up to the moon. Could be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Anyway, that stuff aside...

    I would feel that even if rebirth/new 52 Wonder Woman is only high end hypersonic in her superspeed reaction time, that is a loooot of attacks to rain down on Jessica considering her utter lack of speed. It makes it a problem as far as her doing some other esoteric move.
    Just for reference, the best speed feats I have seen.

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440794
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440795
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440796

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6397317

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440816
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440817

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440828

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6440884

    I had seen the "outrunning a bullet" one, but that feels less ambiguous than I remembered and there was some other stuff in there I hadn't seen before. She's also got super speed throw downs with Cheetah and Supergirl. She has also parried heat vision with her sword and stuff. So yeah, that's some good speed, and should let her rain down attacks pretty well.

    Also, she trounced newbie justice league Hal really hard, but he was written as a complete goober in that Geoff Johns run. Then again, Jessica can be a bit of a goober herself. But this gets into a larger issue...


    I suppose there's "Sinestro's autoshields bounced an exploding planet", but that feels a bit beyond even high end to spot to Jessica as far as "one of the greatest ring wielders to ever bear a ring had his high end ring crap include this", compared to more basic uses.

    That also itself generally feels a bit beyond even high end for the post flashpoint lanterns.
    So a big problem with Nu/Rebirth DC is that a lot of the feats involve using other characters at bench marks. This isn't just a thing for Diana or the class 100 types. The only people I've seen substantial stand alone feats for in any decent quantity are Batman and Superman, and I guess to a lesser extent Sinestro and now Rebirth Hal. Other members of the bat family wind up using how they do against Bruce as their big measuring stick for hand to hand skills. People like Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman mostly have their class 100 stuff demonstrated by fighting kryptonians. And the Lanterns have fought a lot of cosmic god types who can run around doing stuff like blowing up planets casual like and such.

    It is a weird point where presentation wise lots of these characters seem like they SHOULD be romping at or around their post crisis levels. But they need a few feats of their own to solidify themselves there. That goes for Cassandra Cain, Wonder Woman, and a whole host of other characters.

    Now, there are a few top end Lantern feats in that bracket, which is why I don't think the Sinestro thing is an outlier. John Stewart basically repeated that performance in GLC 40. They had retconned version of the destruction of Xanshi, which actually feels much more in line with the post crisis Lantern baseline than the original Xanshi feat from Cosmic Odyssey, which was bonkers powerful.

    Hal has also made reference to having moved a moon around solo, which I believe is a reference to something he did post crisis. He also blew up War World in a way that got compared to a Super Nova, but he was channeling absurd writer wank for that entire run.

    Beyond that, as mentioned, there's various fights with people who muck about on that scale. For example, Nu Kryptonians pack more punch than Nu Lanterns, but Nu Kryptonians have also gotten a big upgrade compared to post crisis, and Lanterns have been able to damage them at least. (By comparison, while Sinestro came out looking singed from a planet going off, Rebirth Clark casually chilled on one as it exploded and didn't even have his hair mussed.)

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    And as an extension of all that, how close to Superman do we say Diana is? Because even counting Lanterns tanking planet busters isn't enough to handle anything remotely approaching "benched the planet for five days casually" rained down at "out runs bullets" speed.

    Note: I also agree those top end shield feats done by top end Lanterns shouldn't be spotted for Jessica. I'm more just addressing whether those feats are outliers.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I THINK that was the League's moon base teleorters bringing the aliens up to the moon. Could be wrong.


    I'm pretty sure Kyle shot a green beam at her for the teleport but I don't have my comic for reference to be sure.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    And as an extension of all that, how close to Superman do we say Diana is? Because even counting Lanterns tanking planet busters isn't enough to handle anything remotely approaching "benched the planet for five days casually" rained down at "out runs bullets" speed.

    Note: I also agree those top end shield feats done by top end Lanterns shouldn't be spotted for Jessica. I'm more just addressing whether those feats are outliers.
    If she's done dead zero nothing even close to Superman's stuff, it's difficult to say she should be especially close to his level of output.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    If she's done dead zero nothing even close to Superman's stuff, it's difficult to say she should be especially close to his level of output.
    Which is why I'm not really sure what happens here. Lantern shield scan withstand a couple of hits landed by a daxamite at super speed without being taken out. So what percentage of a daxamite is Diana, and what percentage of John Stewart is Jessica Cruz?

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Which is why I'm not really sure what happens here. Lantern shield scan withstand a couple of hits landed by a daxamite at super speed without being taken out. So what percentage of a daxamite is Diana, and what percentage of John Stewart is Jessica Cruz?
    There's a difference between "a couple of hits" and "a loooot of hits", though.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    There's a difference between "a couple of hits" and "a loooot of hits", though.
    Absolutely. But then we circle back to "how strong are those hits?" because that determines how many hits need to happen. Along with how fast she is, because that determines how many hits are landed. (I'm not sure how many hits after crossing 100 feet to expect if she's "just" outruns bullets fast.)

    Basically I'm saying that unless you take her fighting Kryptonians at face value for speed and striking power, despite lacking other feats, I really have no clue how potent she is.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Absolutely. But then we circle back to "how strong are those hits?" because that determines how many hits need to happen. Along with how fast she is, because that determines how many hits are landed. (I'm not sure how many hits after crossing 100 feet to expect if she's "just" outruns bullets fast.)

    Basically I'm saying that unless you take her fighting Kryptonians at face value for speed and striking power, despite lacking other feats, I really have no clue how potent she is.
    Well the first year of her solo book took a savage and thorough retcon, so that stuff's out.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Well the first year of her solo book took a savage and thorough retcon, so that stuff's out.
    Sure. That certainly hells her chances by removing negative feats. But I am still not sure she has any positive feats on this level.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Well the first year of her solo book took a savage and thorough retcon, so that stuff's out.
    Oh seriously? I literally JUST started reading that. -_-
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  11. #41
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Well the first year of her solo book took a savage and thorough retcon, so that stuff's out.
    Ah, DC never fails to live up (or down) to my expectations. Yet another major retcon within what is supposed to be a particular continuity. Why am I completely not surprised in the least by this? Why am I not, at this very moment, surprised?
    Power with Girl is better.

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